Thank you I-golf-now. Why does the press persist in misquoting the President? Everytime I read a comment like the one in this article, I want to scream "NOT TRUE; THAT'S NOT WHAT HE SAID."

Having a right is not the same thing as being right.

Stating that they have the right to build the mosque does not equate to being in favor of building it. In my estimation it is a President following his oath of office in terms of defending the Constitution.

When the President spoke at the dinner that night I think it is fair to say most people did not take it as they have the Constitutional right to build even if offensive. It was only clarified to mean a legal right on par with the nazi's marching on Skokie the next day with the legal but not wise statement.

They have the right to build it there.

They should have the wisdom not to.

Your two sentences says it all.

I agree 100%

Rome is burning and you fools are playing the fiddle.

This is NOTHING BUT A DISTRACTION to keep the "war" on terror going and it is financed by the elite because they profit from the wars.

As a conservative, who defends liberty and property rights this is a simple black and white issue. They own the property, and they have a right too it and a right to their beliefs.

Liberty and Freedom are not always convenient or PC.

Our nation is bankrupt. We are inching toward a hyperinflation crisis for which the depression will look like a holiday. Yet still, we allow special interest to distract us and pit us against petty stupid arguments while the house is burning to the ground.

Wake up America. Quit being so easily manipulated and distracted. Otherwise we are doomed.

I think the best analogy regarding this issue was when a Catholic Convent planned to build a chapel near Auschwitz. There was a fuss, and, rather than push the issue, the Pope acquired alternate property for the nuns to build their chapel. They weren't even the "bad guys". I'm still not understanding what a "Mainstream Muslim" really is, either, especially when they refuse to not only condemn the fanatical zealots, but going after them and routing them out. I guess "birds of a feather flock together", is not too far off the mark . Remember, before/after WWII most Germans claimed they weren't Nazis, either.

Remember, before/after WWII most Germans claimed they weren't Nazis, either.

And before the war Germans were made to hate all Jews thanks to mindless rhetoric and propaganda.

I bet you think the terrorists, all Saudis (not Iraqi, Afghan, Iranian ect.) attacked us because we are Christian or "Western". Goes to show elitist propaganda is working on most Americans.

Miss USA is well intentioned but unfortunately has made the critical and even strategic mistake that if you give a little the racists and xenophobes will likewise moderate their views. Literally, give these people a mile or two from Ground Zero and they will take 3000! For the rest of us It is an all or nothing proposition - whether it is a church or synagogue or a mosque they all have the constitutional right to be anywhere in lower Manhattan.

Mr. Rogers, I think I live in your neighborhood!!

+1 to you....

I will reserve my opinion until she lives another week or two. Then I know she hasn't been executed for being a woman speaking against allah.

It is only a matter of time until FOX viewers go on to their next hatred! First Obama was a product of the Chicago political machine, then he was a friend of domestic terrorist, then a non citizen, then a Socialist, then a Communist, then a Nazi and now he is a closet Muslim. what's left - that he is the wrong kind of Christian! It's funny where "chalk board' induced ignorance can lead the less intelligent of us.

Very well said Mendy. The country is still too emotional about the issue and it just would not be a very good idea to shove it down American's throats at this time. The operative word here is TIME.

If this is really about fostering understanding and building a bridge between cultures, then there would be no more debate. They would build elsewhere.

Also, why is it that leftists spout hatred against Fox news whenever they disagree with a post. It makes their entire argument sound childish, trite and invalid.

ugh, here we go again. Last time I checked, we were at war with the terrorists, not the religion Islam. If we build a Church there, there would be no problem. Why's that?

I might have a problem with it. A christian terrorist flew an airplane into a government building earlier this year.

ok here i go, 1 can of gas....into the fire....

personally, i feel i am as American as anyone, and even moreso than a lot of people i have met.

Gov, can not put its own wheels of justice, into religion, must be seprate, and Nobama is playing that card to the hilt... me however....

I still believe, despite how our recent leaders have run our country into the ground with its crazed spending spree, how much of our nation is out beating the pavement looking for work/ food/ shelter, that we are still a nation that still consists of the pride, and freedom it was founded when the war began and ended with the declaration of independence, our constitution.

I still see we are at war, but not with ALL muslims, and we ARE talking 2 blocks from ground zero. If anything here, why not make 2 miles, or 200 miles, or even 2,000 miles, because last i heard the sun rises in the east, and anything a muslim person would have built, will be in the shadow of the former twins....

You and I (all of you) know there are the decent muslim, and the ones we are fighting to this day since the bombing, with that said i have ony one opinion, being on the answer i ask... That's if the people wanting to build there, are the type of muslims we are seeking to bring an end to? if so, then no. Dont let them build a house out of a deck of cards, and run them off.

If they are the ones our men and women are fighting to protect, by all means let them build.

Our nation, was created so all men and women can be treated as equals. now i know a bunch of racisits just want to jump right in on this, but dont bother. It takes time to change the way people think, and yes i am referring to the start of when black men an d women were slaves, to where we are today. It isnt something that happens overnight, but listen to what this type of madness is doing to what we have worked so hard to achieve from those days. We have the longest running constitution in history ever! at least whats left of it.

I think the time has come for us all, man and woman alike to be adults, and look at the people in our nation, just not as face value (color, sex, race, religion) but at who they are what they stand for, and what they believe in. There are people who do come here from other countries, with good hearts, and honest minds, who want to do better in live than dodge bullets, or land minds, or IDE's.... They want to be happy, work, enjoy watching their kids grow up smart, healthy, and most of all free...... That's the country i was born in, that's the country i stand by.

I'll even wear the burka in this relationship!

The only reason this community center is offensive to some people is that they are blaming the entire Muslim religion and culture for the acts of renegades and Americans should not allow this kind of hatred to inhibit the freedom of fellow Americans. Those who are offended should take a hard look at themselves and get over it.

The objections to the community center only make sense if one assumes that all Muslims are enemies of the USA. This is nonsense and the essence of bigotry to class all people of a group in the same light.

The Muslim community is as broad and diverse as the Christian community. It would be nice if Americans who do not understand that fact would come to realise it. I suppose that will happen on the day that all other forms of bigotry cease to exist.

Rome is burning and you fools are playing the fiddle.

This is NOTHING BUT A DISTRACTION to keep the "war" on terror going and it is financed by the elite because they profit from the wars.

As a conservative, who defends liberty and property rights this is a simple black and white issue. They own the property, and they have a right too it and a right to their beliefs.

Liberty and Freedom are not always convenient or PC.

Our nation is bankrupt. We are inching toward a hyperinflation crisis for which the depression will look like a holiday. Yet still, we allow special interest to distract us and pit us against petty stupid arguments while the house is burning to the ground.

Wake up America. Quit being so easily manipulated and distracted. Otherwise we are doomed.

Bears repeating. This is a ploy to keep the people of America divided and at each other's throats, while a few reap unimaginable profits and laugh their a$$e$ off at how easily distracted people are by pseudo-issues and shiny trinkets.

United we stand, divided we fall. It's still true. The only way to keep our liberty, our Republic, our Constitution, is to shut out the extremists and cut the legs out from under the corporate lobby. STOP HATING YOUR FELLOW AMERICANS! Stop labeling everyone as Republican or Democrat, conservative or liberal. The only label that matters is American. If you hyphenate that with ANYTHING ELSE, you do not get it, and you do not deserve to call yourself an American.

Does everyone realize Christian proselytizing is banned in most Islamic countries? The majority of people not wanting this mosque near WTC do not necessarily want to ban Islamic religion, but this happens to be sacred gound where the ashes of our loved ones fell, just as in Auschwitz. What do you think would happen if Israel decided they wanted to rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem, which was there before the Dome? I don't believe islam would go along, seeing as they want to destroy Israel.

flbikerchick: And who gave you authority to be a spokesperson for all other Americans? I will answer that for you. "nobody"

Just because there are intolerant governments with majority-Muslim citizens overseas doesn't mean that we should follow their lead. Arguing that a community center and interfaith prayer hall should not be built by American Muslims because Saudi Arabia doesn't allow Christian proselytization is absurd. Is that who we're taking our cues from now? It seems to me that the amount of misunderstanding about Islam and the Islamic world is exactly why we need to build a place like this - and is exactly why the location (which is not at ground zero) is so appropriate.

By the way, there is already a mosque - an actual mosque, not an interfaith community center and prayer hall - closer to the former WTC site than the proposed development at Park51.

Patrick

This is America and many of us do not want to follow the lead of nations who do not have the Constitutional liberties we have in this country. We can find examples of behavior all over the world that doesn't meet our standards. Why should we lower our standards because of that?

American man

flbikerchick has a very good American message. You should think about it.

mendy07, post 1.8 - Well said.

Is this still the United States of America?

If we continue to compromise our freedoms in this "war on terror"due to our fear then the terrorists have already won. This is exactly what they wanted to accomplish and some Americans are either to f'ing stupid to see it or to f'ing ignorant. I am not sure which.

Look, either we have freedom of religion or we don't. We either honor that sacred document or we wipe our asses with it. Freedom of religion for all, not a select few.

They can build it there, and it really SHOULDN'T matter, but it is the smart thing to move it say another 3 blocks(maybe more or less).

9 out out of 10 times whatever Obama says, is only half -truths or lies. FOX news gets alot more stuff right than NBC ever will. Also, why is it that a baseball player can be brought up on charges of lying to congress but Obama and can congress can tell lies all day to us?

I agree they are misquoting the president. He was trying to say they have every right to freedom as any other American; a right to practice their religion and build or rent a PRIVATE place on PRIVATE property. It is not ON government property and therefore it's none of the government's business to step in. I don't understand how the far right can twist such nonsense to fit their agenda. I mean, please, this is clearly in the CONSTITUTION OF THE USA for all Americans. They are all for the constitution but tend to forget about that little bit, in the FIRST amendment, that says ""Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"

isn't it ironic that this year was not only the year of the first muslim miss America but also the U.S. contestant was muslim.

i thougth that it was unconstitutional and unlawful to hire or otherwise promote or give a position to anyone based on race, color creed or religion. is this a coinsidense or was this person voted "winner" based on her religious beliefs.

fiberchick,

very good point.

United we stand, divided we fall. It's still true. The only way to keep our liberty, our Republic, our Constitution, is to shut out the extremists and cut the legs out from under the corporate lobby. STOP HATING YOUR FELLOW AMERICANS! Stop labeling everyone as Republican or Democrat, conservative or liberal. The only label that matters is American. If you hyphenate that with ANYTHING ELSE, you do not get it, and you do not deserve to call yourself an American.

Im sure a ton of people who know nothing about Islam, the Quran, Allah and Mohammad will get on here

Kinda like you, huh?

Asserting that Miss USA is not a "true" Muslim because she doesn't wear a burka is absurd. Would you allow somebody who doesn't share your religious beliefs to define whether or not you are a "real" Christian, Jew, atheist, Wiccan, etc. etc. etc.? There are a wide spectrum of Muslims all over the world with a wide spectrum of social and political beliefs, some of them quite liberal. Your conflation of "Islam" with hard-line foreign governmental rhetoric and policies is exactly why this center should be built. The lack of nuance displayed in the discussions surrounding this development are amazing.

And how do you know what TRUE MUSLIM WOMAN IS? you think all muslim woman wear that..YOU are so mistaken, I'M A muslim! and i never had wear that..And one more thing for all those who think ALL muslims are terorists..i have one question! Did Mosque kill all those people in 9/11???????????? and one more thing..If America is all aout freedom and democracy,like they talking on all mouth...how come then..even efore tragic 9/11 happened. there was not minnaret on any Mosque in America,and you can't EVER,EVER HEAR EZAN?????? ( PRAYER)

europian muslim woman:

To answer your question...NO, a 'mosque' did NOT kill all those people on 9/11, but a devout follower or the Muslim religion did in the name of Allah.

Now...irregardless of WHO wants to build this community center/mosque, if this community center/mosqe is built here, that very same 'Allah' will be worshipped here.

Is it possible for you to get past your religious fervor and see how utterly horrific this is specifically to someone that lost a loved one on 9/11, and horrific to Americans in general?

I believe that all Americans believe in religious freedom, but not at the expense of someone else's peace of mind.

Tell me...is there some reason WHY this must be built at this specific spot? If not, then those peace-lovin' muslims should get over themselves and choose another place for their 'community center'. End of story....that is, IF they want a peaceful end to this one (which I'm willing to bet they aren't).

Are you stupid? I mean ok, a priest raped/molested boys, and he is supposedly the VOICE of God...uh, does that mean i stop following my religion? No, because i know my religion, and it doesnt say to do so...btw...Look up the definition of "Allah" its translated to God...Im a world religions major and so this upsets me that an idiot can come on here and say things hes heard on the news and think he knows it all. MUSLIMS WERE LOST ON 911 ALSO! What happened to the U.S being open to all religions, and people....Just because other countries arent open to OUR religion doesnt mean we cant be open to theirs. Muslim countries are not open to other religions FOR THAT REASON...they are a MUSLIM country...we are a country of many. This isnt just to you jet-...its to everyone on this thread. Truly irrational, the thing is built blocks away from Ground Zero (where there are churches i might add). ALSO, the school shootings, were those boys terrorists? or they just committed a crime? THe unibomber...was he a terrorist? Or just a man with a bomb...these people were Christians/Catholics, and if anyone ever called me a terrorist for being associated with that religion, you better bet id be pissed. So, understand people, go research a little, instead of saying things you dont understand, like the rest of the morons who go on TV...as for the idiot who was running that "National BUrn a Koran Day" he was arrested for possessing and distributing child porn...LMAO so now a EVERY priest, and religious leader is a child porn distributing MORON? think about it.

Im really glad to know there are some people like you .because i almost give up to find someone who discuss this issue wisely. It's so aggressive to treat Muslims like that because of some psychopathies terrorists . Trust im a real muslim and im telling you they are not Muslims they are trained machines by some organized smart people who know how to turn normal people into criminals ,And who kill innocents , those people are really smart to use the name of Islam in their crimes because they want to spread hate and animosity against islam they know what will be the reaction of the world toward such violence they know how to ruin the reputation of islam .

Please people use your brain think .Stop copping others opinions . Stop talking like fools think read about Islam,dont make judgments based on what others say im really disappointed with americans u are one of the most developed countries in the world how did you reach to that level of progress and you are talking like illiterate people who no nothing about world !!!!!!!!?????????

we have hundred of thousands of mosques in the world we are not asking to build any others in ground zero or ground 100 Islam will not Vanish if we didnt buil. we muslims think it is not a wise decision not because we are responsible for what happened their in 11 - 9 no at all Islam is peaceful religion it's mercy and who read about Islam will know what im talking about .We Muslims are against building a mosque at ground Zero because we dont want to give any chance for terrorists to destroy more under the name of Islam , which has nothing to do with them , Islam are against killing innocents people and destroying their properties .That's Islam .

there was not minnaret on any Mosque in America,and you can't EVER,EVER HEAR EZAN?????? ( PRAYER)

Mosques in the United States: 1,209

i don't think the US is running short on mosque.

Jet-1017207 says, "Is it possible for you to get past your religious fervor and see how utterly horrific this is specifically to someone that lost a loved one on 9/11, and horrific to Americans in general?"

So Jet, is it possible for you to get past your religious bigotry and understand that every Muslim in the world is not part of the supposed "Muslim conspiracy" of 9/11? Timothy McVeigh blew up a government building in Oklahoma, so therefore all people of Scottish ancestry are enemies of the USA? members of the Christian Westboro Baptist Church march around with signs that say, "God hates Fags" so therefore all Christians are homophobes?

There are about 1.45 BILLION Muslims in the world. Do you honestly imagine that they all are avowed enemies of the USA and want to destroy your country? If so, the mere 300 million Americans may as well surrender now because you are way out-numbered! If 1.45 BILLION people were determined to destroy America, you would not be suffering the occasional terrorist act, you would suffer multiple attacks every day of the year!

Try and THINK a bit dude and look beyond your stupid bigotry. You most certainly will never be able to fight your real enemies if you cannot clearly see who they are.

"Otherwise, they are building it there to celebrate the towers being taken down and thats that."

First of all, that's assuming a fact from something not in evidence. In other words, you're jumping to a conclusion without providing anything to support it.

"70% of Americans never said that this Mosque could not be built just not there. Just find another place to put it."

This argument has been put neither calmly nor respectfully. Instead, there's been attempt to intimidate a minority from exercising its constitutional rights. This is bad news for everyone, because it suggests that our "certain inalienable rights" do not come from a Creator but are conferred, and can therefore be withheld, by the majority of the moment. That's flatly un-American.

If you believe in the Declaration of Independence and in the Constitution, you will support the construction of the community center, especially because you don't like the location.

When I was growing up, a conservative mantra was "I may not like what you say, but I will defend to death your right to say it." What happened to that?

Citizen K you could very well say that the minority is trying to intimidate the majority here. If this really was just "peaceful people trying to exercise their rights under the constitution to practice their religion" why in the name of God would they 1) choose this particular spot, and 2) not be willing to move when they know how the majority feels? As for the so-called conservative mantra, why would you expect the majority to bend to the will of a minority. 70% of NYers do not want it there. What does it take for them to get it? It is disrespectful and in poor taste.

The imam said this would be built to encourage peace and understanding. If that were true, shouldn't he have rethought his actions when it appeared emotions were getting out of control? Whether the 60% or so of people who are against it are oversensitive/crazy or not, wouldn't you reconsider the location of your building of peace and understanding if you noticed that 60% of people were moderately to extremely angry? If not, then hate and prejudice may just balloon out of control because you are being stubborn and you may not get the chance to increase peace and understanding.

"you could very well say that the minority is trying to intimidate the majority here"

No, I couldn't, because that's not happening. The intimidation is all coming from one side. Regardless, only one side's constitutional rights are at stake.

"why in the name of God would they 1) choose this particular spot, and 2) not be willing to move when they know how the majority feels?"

This is irrelevant to the 1st Amendment question. Any attempt to make it relevant also makes my point.

"70% of NYers do not want it there"

The figure in Manhattan is 36%.

Not that it matters, but the proximity to GZ didn't figure into the location decision. That area has about the cheapest real estate in Manhattan; the lot's original building had been on sale for some time with no takers. Is the majority with strong feelings willing to provide the millions of dollars it would cost to build elsewhere in Manhattan?

This is nothing but a right-wing red meat issue for the November elections. Next year at this time, it will have all of the relevance of Elian Gonzales.

What bothers me the most about the so called majority opinion in this matter is that I believe it has been incited by political agendas. Look to who benefits, near term, from this hysteria and I think you will have your answers to the sources of phrases like "Victory Mosque."

The problem for me is that the long term consequences to the hysteria are unthinkable. The majority seems to want to cast aside the Bill of Rights, the extremists, from both sides, will use this to fuel the fires of hatred, and Osama Bin Ladin continues to claim success for his agenda as we seem to validate his point of view that Americans are selfish and hatefule people.

http://www.thejakartaglobe.com/opinion/critics-of-manhattan-mosque-are-embracing-saudi-bigotry/392448

Citizen K, I continue to be amazed by people's inability to distinguish between the right to build, and whether or not it is unsympathetic. I don't think anyone makes the case they don't have the right; they do. What people are saying, and I agree, is that if their true goal is to "build bridges", then why would they do so in a manner that a majority of Americans see as inflammatory (right or wrong). And yes, it is a majority of Americans. Recognizing the overwhelming sentiment that the mosque (community center if you prefer) is opposed by the very people they proclaim to try to fix relations with seems counterproductive.

Again, this is how people feel. Not a legal issue.

Citizen your figures are wrong. Furthermore, regardless of location, they still need millions to built it! Why wouldn't they want to put their actions where their words are and relocate in the name of goodwill and peace? It would also show some sensitivity to an horrendous tragedy.

Forget to say that yes it is intimidation when the minority is trying to twist things around to its benefit. There are plenty in New York and in the US. Trying to make it an issue of bias is trying to intimidate. I have never seen anyone say a mosque could not be built....only not there as a matter of respect and sensitivity. I don't think that is being bias or being hysterical. Are we not supposed to have any feelings now because somebody might not agree with them?

Citizen K you could very well say that the minority is trying to intimidate the majority here.

BULLCRAP... total BS. This has everything to do with NEO-CONs and the elite who wish to convince America that Muslims are the enemy, they hate because we are Western or Christian or Rich or whatever blah blah crap. They don't want us to know they don't like us occupying their lands, replacing democratic leaders for dictators so we can have access to oil, and exploiting their resources. That is why many Muslims in the middle east hate America.

If Americans learn the truth about the crimes we have committed there it will be hard for NEO-Cons and world government elites to keep selling us endless wars against new enemies (Iran soon).

Wake up people. Quit being pawns for these evil crooks.

Flash1~

Just because you say he is wrong doesn't make it so.
The "minority" isn't trying to intimidate. I certainly have nothing to gain by that mosque being there. They are asking for understanding and to respect peoples rights, as we should in this country. Every day people to things that are legal but not right, and we don't always hear so much noise, that is because this issue is all smoke and mirrors.
People like you claim that they should be more understanding and sympathetic, without themselves being understanding and sympathetic. Those people that will go to worship at this mosque aren't the crazy people that attacked America that day.
People forget that it wasn't an attack on just 3 blocks of America, it was an attack on all America, we cannot contain it in a few block area. So it is up to Americans to try to be the understanding ones.

I beleive Citizen K, makes a valid argument and would have to concede my position over to him. Cheap realistate. Who wouldn't take to the opportunity to get a bargain to build on.

As for all the right wing propaganda you're insinuating for political purposes. No. Many of us Americans have served in the United States military and are patriotic. Building it there right now is just not a good idea. In 10 more years feelings might be different.

The timing is just not good.

I think that we should pay more attention to what Muslims outside the US are saying. The fact that many Islamic authorities (I won't say leaders because they have no real authority), are understanding of the fact that a MAJORITY of Americans feel this mosque would be better suited somewhere with no symbolic implications is very telling.

"Citizen your figures are wrong."

My numbers on Manhattan are good:

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local-beat/New-Yorkers-Oppose-Ground-Zero-Mosque-Poll-97602569.html

"Broken down by borough, Manhattan was the most in favor of the mosque, with only 36 percent of residents against it."

"Furthermore, regardless of location, they still need millions to built it!"

This isn't A-Rod building the center, which by the way will be a nondescript building indistinguishable from anything around it.

"Why wouldn't they want to put their actions where their words are and relocate in the name of goodwill and peace?"

Why don't you do that?

Suppose the government decided tomorrow that it had enough of Rush Limbaugh and had majority support to take him off the air, all in the name of peace and good will. Should he therefore tone done his rhetoric?

BTW, there appears to be wide agreement here that (a) the Sufis have the right to build the community center and (b) it's unwise to build it. Sounds like you are all in agreement with President Obama.

Mr. Rogers,

I think you ought to run that past your little puppet friends and see what they think

Wrong-o Citizen K. We all have the balls to stand up and say straight out that though they have the right to do it, it would be wrong if they did. Mister Obama doesn't have 'em, never will. He may WISH he had the backbone to but being a Muslim (actions speak MUCH louder than his lies) he NEVER will.

ignorance rules :(

Mr. Rogers,

I think you ought to run that past your little puppet friends and see what they think

Nice "Nanny Nanny Boo Boo" 10 year old response. If you care to debate any points I made, feel free.

"Wrong-o Citizen K. We all have the balls to stand up and say straight out that though they have the right to do it, it would be wrong if they did"

He stood up and said it in public. You're using a handle on a comment board. That takes real huevos.

The community center and prayer hall should be built exacly where it is BECAUSE of the distinct lack of understanding displayed by those who oppose its construction. If its true mission is to foster understanding and build bridges, then the Sufi Imam has obviously chosen exactly the right place. Developing this community center in this location, which, although not at ground zero, does invite people to examine their knee-jerk anti-Muslim feelings when they hear about it is brilliant. Would we be having this national conversation about Islam and its place in America and the world if the Imam had chosen a different location? Would these people who are screaming for "sensitivity" really re-examine their thoughts and feel all warm and fuzzy about Islam if the center were to move? Of course not. And is it a discussion we need to have? Obviously! There is an incredible amount of misinformation and misunderstanding about Islam (both domestic and foreign) among the American electorate and I look forward to seeing how this all pans out.

If its true mission is to foster understanding and build bridges, then the Sufi Imam has obviously chosen exactly the right place. Developing this community center in this location, which, although not at ground zero, does invite people to examine their knee-jerk anti-Muslim feelings when they hear about it is brilliant.

It is only a good idea if it turns out as promised. If this project turns out as the opponents fear, it will seriously harm American's perceptions of Muslim citizens. The supporters have stressed that these are just average typical American Muslims and that this project will not accept money from people that support our enemy's ideology.

If so many average, normal American Muslims support a project and promise it is legit few people will ever believe 'just a few bad apples' if the opponents fears come true.

Miss USA's comments do reflect the perspective of most Muslims. I am a member of this community. Constitutional rights are not the issue. Building the cultural center, which will include a mosque, near Ground Zero is wrong. We say, move it and move on from this topic.

Constitutional rights are clearly the issue when support of the right to build the center has become an issue in the election of federal officials. There's no way around that. The right -- via Sarah Palin, rush Limbaugh et. al. has made it such.

Now that it is a constitutional issue, 1st Amendment absolutists such as myself have no alternative but to defend the center's construction.

The truth is that conservative politicians don't care whether the center is built or not: They have a long history of blowing minor issues into major proportions to distract from their politics. I doubt that Rush Limbaugh or Sarah Palin care much either, because at least this way they have something to shout about.

Constitutional rights are clearly the issue when support of the right to build the center has become an issue in the election of federal officials

I'm not sure our Constitutional rights are affected regardless of the involvement of politicians, unless they pass laws.

1st Amendment absolutists such as myself have no alternative but to defend the center's construction

If the money came from sources that support the ideology of our enemies you are forced to support it? If the leaders pass discriminatory rules regarding who gets to use the 'Interfaith pray room' or discriminate by sex with the public swimming pool do you really feel forced to support them? Why?

Miss USA's comments do reflect the perspective of most Muslims. I am a member of this community. Constitutional rights are not the issue. Building the cultural center, which will include a mosque, near Ground Zero is wrong. We say, move it and move on from this topic.

That maybe true. The supporters of this project, especially the non-Muslim ones are making many promises that the backers are just typical American Muslims, that this project has wide support from the Muslim community and that the funding will not come from sources that support the ideology of our enemies.

If America's Muslims think this is a bad idea then you would be wise to be more vocal about it. If this ends up as the opponents fear your community will take the blame for the promises of the Left.

I look at it this way. We are all God's people. Why not just solve the whole delima with one simple solution, build a chapel where all walks of life could go and worship the way God intended freely. Freedom is the one thing all Americans have taken for granted. That is why we have such a diverse population. I see no need for all the squabbling. When I cut myself and I'm white, and my friend who might be muslim or whatever it doesn't matter when she cuts herself we both bleed the same color. Our anatomy is the same, if she needed a heart and I happened to die being an organ donor I wouldn't care if she got my heart. I'm a Southern Baptist but that doesn't matter, we were all created by God and for a devine purpose whether we like it or not. Just have a heart, treat everyone with respect.

Judy,

Rosie wishful thinking, if the world worked that way it would be great...but it doesn't and never will. With muslims its their way or NO-way. Certainly there ARE moderates that think like you and thats fine, but who do you think they will stand with when it comes down to the "toe to toe"? And if we don't nip this in the bud now, it WILL come to that. Another holy war on a massive scale with a zealot enemy who fights dirty and striving to acheive nuclear capabilities...if that doesn't scare you as a very real possibility there something very wrong.

The community center and prayer hall IS a "chapel where all walks of life could go and worship the way God intended freely". In Islam, a mosque is defined as a place where only those of the Muslim faith can enter and worship. There is a mosque a little more than a block away from the WTC site which has been there since at least the early 90s. The 13-story proposed communtiy center at Park51 includes two stories set aside to be a place where anybody, of any faith, can worship freely and learn about other religions, including Islam.

It will have a prayer room in it and the building that is currently on the lot was damaged by one of the planes landing gear and was listed by the FBI as part of the Ground Zero destruction...

Yes Scott, that may be true, but it was not set aside as part of the memorial. It is just real estate than anyone can buy and develop in any legal manner they wish.

It is not a "victory tower", it is a cultural center for the largest single religion in the world and the fastest growing religion in America.

Welcome to the world of the 21st Century Scott. Sorry, there is no turning back, clocks don't run that way. It's onward, into the future, and the future holds more religious diversity and less white christian majority. Get used to it.

skip..."it is a cultural center for the largest single religion (Islam) in the world...:

"the future holds more religious diversity and less white christian majority"

(Contradiction obvious...)

Scott,

Getting hit with debris from an explosion does not constitute ground zero for an explosion. Ground zero is the point of the explosion, the center of it.

Dear Toasty Magrath......

Yeah .....I agree....It's not New York or America either. The land belongs to Islam.

I think you suffer from Cranial-Rectal Inversion Syndrome

Uh, what are you even talking about?

Sharia law dictates that you,Skip, are an infidel and deserving of death for it.
Welcome to your "diversity", get used to DEATH. But before you die I do hope you are allowed the privelige of seeing your loved oes murdered and enslaved.
Keep you head in the sand.

The Old Testament has passages that indicate that a believer should kill anyone who questions their faith of a believer, even if that person is a member of one's only family. Yet, no one seems to be executing each other for questioning their dogma on a daily basis.

Fear is the greatest form on enslavement that exists.

Actually hs321, Christianity totals around 2 billion. Islam is around 1.5 billion.

This young lady Rima Fakih has a right to voice her opinion, but her actual authority to speak on the matter is no more relevant than Sarah Palin's for the exact same reason. She is a beauty queen. Most Americans don't believe any of you beauty contestants are even capable of intelligent thoughts to begin with. I'm sorry, that's just the traditional perception we Americans have towards beauty queens. I wouldn't judge you that way without having a conversation with you, but odds are you'll prove me right (as Miss Idaho Amanda Ramell did a few years ago).

Stevee Ray: You make absolutly no sense......well accept for what seems to be some sort of weird death threat.

Toasty: Watch the news

Skip: Welcome to the world of the 21st Century Scott. Sorry, there is no turning back, clocks don't run that way. It's onward, into the future, and the future holds more religious diversity and less white christian majority. Get used to it. And this is what, something new.

Gentle Men, I think what we are all forgeting is the fact that no matter what the case, no matter what the time, and no matter what the place, it would be a complete lack of respect to put any form of such center on, near, or close to the site of that tragedy. If the all the troops from all the countries pulled out of the middle east right now and left the area as is, and then said hey I want to build a christian center next to one of the most sacred Islamic sites (destroyed or not) what would happen and how would it be looked as?

Think about it.

seeing your loved oes murdered and enslaved.

Yeah, I think you got that backwards. Not surprising, actually.

Wow, the bs really flowed hot and heavy after I returned to work. Well, first of all, no contradictions big boy. Islam is the largest religious preference in the world and it is still growing. No contradiction there.

It is ALSO the fastest growing religious preference in these United States. Still not the majority or even close to it, but by 2050 "white christians" are likely to be a minority as people of color and other faiths (incluing Islam) dominate the US Demographic.

Secondly, STEVE-O, while the present "white Chrisitian" majority will certainly not exist as we know it now, the United States will be more culturally diverse by 2050. Blacks, browns and whites will be in almost equal numbers and the diversity of religions this will reflect will also reduce the fable of the "Christian" USA.

I seriously doubt that anybody, except perhaps white, ignorant, rednecks like yourself, will be in any danger because NO ETHNIC GROUP will have a majority and we'll (or rather "they'll") all have to work together to accomplish anything.

That's not my opinion. Check with the folks who track minority population growth and ethnicity in this country. They have been saying for years the fastest growing ethnic group in America is Hispanic. With declining birth rates in all other ethinic groups we will see a true rainbow nation by the middle of this century.

Get used to it bubba. You might no be alive to see it, but your Grandchildren will, so you'd be well advised to have them learn a little Spanish and start teaching them that cultural diversity isn't a bad thing or you'll be setting them up to fail in the world of the future.

Now, why don't you go down to the bowling alley and grab a beer with the rest of the clan members.

Skip - A little spanish huh? How about them learning a little english? A little cultural diversity is a good thing but too much of anything is bad. You know what caused the fall of Rome? Too many minorities or non- Romans, they didn't "buy into" the Roman idea like a true blue Roman. Same thing happening here, too many non- Americans, it will be the downfall of our great country. Do you really think the 12 plus million illegals care if America makes it or fails. Hell they don't even care about the countries they originate from. I embrace a little diversity and color but I aslo want my kids to grow up in a free country not haveing to feel like the "bad white guy" or made to feel inferior because they don't act like pimps or vatos. It's not wrong to want my kids to grow up in the country that I know and love. I could go on but I feel my voice is falling on deaf ears and I'm probably wasting my time trying to get my point across to someone with an opinion like yours.

"We all have the freedom to practice our chosen religion in America. That's what makes this nation so great."

That's how your comment should have read and ended right there.

There are no "BUT"s...

Listen, I'm a 6 Day War veteran, obviously Jewish, and I don't see a problem with what they are trying to do. See, I'm not afraid of them...

"The suggestion to build so close may be a way of offering peace to Americans, but it is obvious the thoughts and feeling we Americans still have to this day were not taken into consideration when the proposal was offered."

Many of the muslims who will worship at the site are Americans. Seeing as they live in the Manhattan area, they very well could have had friends and family killed in the tragedy of 9/11.

This is not a peace offering from some foreign entity, these are AMERICANS exercising their rights. Not all Americans fit the majority, but the Constitution was put in place to protect the rights of the minority from the tyrrany of the majority.

We need to stop speaking as though we were attacked by all of Islam. We were attacked by a politically motivated sect comprised of muslims, yes, but they do not represent all of Islam.

I think that the knee-jerk reaction to stop this shows just how much the mosque is needed, and in that exact location. We are the home of the free, we have freedom of religion, we protect our minorities... this is all stuff that the terrorists who attacked us hate about us. What better way to show that they did not, in fact, win, than by letting this mosque be built and showing them that we will not participate in the holy war that they so desperately crave?

Pull your head out Brasileiro! American are expected to be sensetive to every other nation and people, yet we are to take any and all offenses from other and not say a word?
Your double standard is unacceptable to rational human beings. This action is OFFENSIVE. Period. You are STUPID enough to listen to the other idiots in this nation who continue to spew the lie that the vast majority of muslims will not just step aside and watch their radical "brothers" do as they will to "infedels".And you are too cold and uncaring about you fellow countrymen to care. You are unworthy.
And just so you know, Muslims the world over ARE calling this a Victory Mosque. And if you really want to experience the "religous freedom" you crave, go to Dearborne Michigan. Live under the Unconstitutional Sharia law there(which your traitor Ol'bummer supports!). But you wouldn't have the courage to do something like that would you?

Let me get this straight - are you saying that we should allow or disallow Americans to build things in America because of what some intolerant people in Saudi Arabia or Iran think? Since when did we start taking our cues from them?

Jeff most of us despise as$holes like you who cut and paste and post moronic drival from right wing web sites as if they are original thoughts.

Thank you, mission accomplished!!!

Thank you, mission accomplished!!!

Why you're practically another George Bush!

Sharky Sharky Sharky you need to chill man. George Bush is gone brother get the f#ck over it, time to move on man.

Interesting that you make no mention of the poor under-priviledged corporate class, dependent and addicted as it is to their big ag / big business subsidies and entitlements. Although in truth neither Right or Left has the balls to slay that dragon and let the free market fall where it really should.

And quit kidding yourself re: judical activism being under the sole perview of the Left. Does the Terri Schiavo case ring a bell for example? Maybe just a tad bit of right wing activism there. Funny how it's only labeled activism when the other party is pulling the strings...never when it's being done by the home team.

Nice unoriginal Spam jeff!

http://www.bluemassgroup.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=5316

http://caralis.typepad.com/

http://world-news.newsvine.com/_news/2010/08/23/4954904-biden-to-vets-iraq-insurgents-have-failed"

You posting the same thing on another Newsvine topic.

Ah, I thought I remembered debunking that before...

Another problem the extreme left has, the inability to actually argue a point. It fails to dawn on them that mocking and namecalling doesn't win an arguement. In fact they have willingly blinded themselves to the point that they are not capable of recognising truth. They believe that because they think it it must be true. Just watch. I mis-spelled recognising and THAT will be the only thing in this post that several idiots will have the ability to comment on.

The extreme right is just as bad, but standing on establishment and tradition. Complete fools on both sides. You ALL shame America!

Actually, I think the lack of nuance in national discourse and the inability to listen to the other side's point of view is pretty rampant across the political spectrum. When you start your post with "10 things I hate about the left" - why should anybody on the left even continue reading? You're not going to gain any points with anybody, or change anybody's mind, and you're certainly not going to foster any real discussion.

Agreed.

Also, I have a theory that Natives have been building casinos to get the money from all the "Americans" and then will go buy all their land back. If not, think about it.

would that be before or after "La Reconquista..."?

Well said Wolf

AMEN!!!!! and stevee ray, you are hater!let me tell you something..not all muslims live sharia law!! and those who did that on 9/11 are NOT REAL muslims! it's sad that your see things like that..THERE IS ALSO TRAGEDY ALL AROUND THE WORLD EVERY DAY PEOPLE DIE MORE THAN FOR 9/11/ AND AFTER A WHILE THEY ALL LIVE TOGETHER AGAIN,..THATS US UGLY HUMANS! AND THANKS TO PEOPLE LIKE YOU! THANK YOU! P.S. I SAW REAL WAR EVERY DAY AND DEATH AND LOST MANY,MANY FAMILY AND FRIENDS.. AND I STILL DON'T HATE LIKE YOU ARE!

She's just providing her input, like you are, except you're probably ugly and lonely.

What do you expect Sharky is an idiot.

Hey Jeff: Mission Accomplished

And your post has to do with the "mosque" how? My post was to illustrate the complete hypocricy of the above mentioned actions with the "controversy" over the mosque.

I've always argues that the ONLY way to get the middle east into the 21st century was for them to have a womens lib movement.

How many muslims died during the Crusades?

How many Muslims died during the crusades? We'll never know. Richard the Lion-hearted slaughtered several hundred Muslim prisoners just to teach Saladin a lesson. How many were killed in India before the creation of Pakistan? How many have been killed by the Israelis? How many grains of sand are there are on the beach at Waikiki?

Religious violence has accounted for the deaths of untold millions, perhaps billions over the millenia. No single religion can be singled out for blame since they are ALL to blame.

Which is why, in the 21st century, we need to rise above our petty religious intolerance and act like mature adults and follow the words of the founding fathers. Freedom of Religion, it is guaranteed by the US Constitution. There is no codicile saying "except Islam", there is no exception for anybody.

If the Catholic church wanted to build a church there, no one would care. If the Children of Israel wanted to build a Synagogue there, no one would care. You condemn the entire Muslim faith for the acts of a few fanatics. Shall we condemn all Christians for the acts of Tim McVeign and Terry Nichols? It's the same thing.

Perhaps a better question would be, "How many Americans does it take to destroy the American Constitution?" I think we're about to find out.

How many christianswere slaughtered during the crusades? How many Knights were promised safety if they surrendered and then mercilessly slaughtered after surrendering? How many christians died in Spain during the Jihad?

Skip, you're making the point I was trying to make. Also, don't forget the war between the Catholics and Protestants.

The majority of the Crusades took place before the Protestant Reformation. So from now on, can we please just blame Catholicism for the Crusades, instead of Christianity in general?? Also, the Crusades began after the Islamic conquest of Syria with the goal of REcapturing Jerusalem and the Holy Land from Islamic rule. So Muslims are not just victims in all of that. Note: I am NOT condoning any of the Crusades. But read this interesting bit:

"Another factor that contributed to the change in Western attitudes towards the East came in the year 1009, when the Fatimid Caliph al-Hakim bi-Amr Allah ordered the destruction of the Church of the Holy Sepulchre. In 1039 his successor, after requiring large sums be paid for the right, permitted the Byzantine Empire to rebuild it.^[10] Pilgrimages were allowed to the Holy Lands before and after the Sepulchre was rebuilt, but for a time pilgrims were captured and some of the clergy were killed.^{[citation needed]} The Muslims eventually realized that much of the wealth of Jerusalem came from the pilgrims; for this reason and others, the persecution of pilgrims eventually stopped.^[11] However, the damage was already done, and the violence of the Seljuk Turks became part of the concern that spread support for the Crusades across the Christian world.^[12]"

Notice that they stopped killing the pilgrims after they discovered they could make money off of them. Both sides were to blame.

Well, money drives a lot of things. The pope, centuries ago, banned prostitutes from Rome. However, he recinded the proclomation after the decline in public revenue that resulted.

Consider the following obvious actions:
1. Directed and substantial outreach to Muslim countries and Muslim people.
2. Bowing to Muslim leaders
3. Exempting Muslims from Obamacare, hence, special treatment for Muslims
4. Support for the NYC mosque. Obama has recast this controversy as one of religious freedom, ignoring the deep wounds of the American people over this incident of Islamic terrorism. It is a case of respect for the people, the nation and American values
5. Renaming worldwide acts of radical Islamic terrorists as the work of a few violent extremists
6. Financing a Middle East trip for imam Feisal Abdul Rauf
7. Making the false claim that Islam played a significant role in American history and culture
8. Insisting that the cross be covered when speaking at a Catholic university.
9. Disinviting a Christian evangelical leader to the prayer breakfast so as not to offend Muslims
10. Coldness towards Israel

Obama has said that he is a Christian. Anybody can state that he/she is a Christian but that does not make him/her a genuine believer and follower of Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord.

Why is he unable to make a clear and unequivocal statement of his Christian faith? When did he become a Christian? When was he baptized? Why does he not attend a Christian church?

sorry...forgot to mention, the obvious that our president is a Muslim!

Good, our first Muslim president. When will we have our first Jewish president? Personally, I would like to see a Budhist or Shinto president next.

The majority of the Crusades took place before the Protestant Reformation. So from now on, can we please just blame Catholicism for the Crusades, instead of Christianity in general??

Nope, there was only one Christianity back then. Christianity as a whole takes the credit for the Crusades. The Catholics managed to make their own mess, which is a whole other thread.

Nope, there was only one Christianity back then. Christianity as a whole takes the credit for the Crusades. The Catholics managed to make their own mess, which is a whole other thread.

Your wrong, so brush up on your history.. The Byzantine empire was Orthodox and so was Russia.. There were also a few other Orthodox countries in Europe.

Its funny....how many years after WWII (where 450,000 lives were lost) did we allow the skin heads (Nazi's) to spew forth their vile filth? How long after WWII did we allow, and some would say still allow, anti-semitism to abound in this country? How long after slavery did we "protect" the rights of the KKK? How long after being attacked by Japs did we rush in and REBUILD their country?

Can ANYONE tell me the most decorated combat troop the United States has EVER produced?? It was the Japenese Nese(sp) who wreaked havoc in the European theater...how did we treat them? Only by rounding up everyone of them and putting them in internment camps.....HELLO PEOPLE!!!! ANYONE HOME!!???

GET OVER IT ALREADY PEOPLE!!! ITS A NON FREAKING ISSUE!!

First, she's really hot! Second, yes the terrorists were Muslim. Quite frankly, I don't think Islam (and few do) is entirely innocent of the environment that breeds terrorism. None of that changes the 2nd amendment. The owners of the property do not need any of our opinions or permissions to build a mosque there so long as it's properly zoned for religious buildings. The key question is, how far is far enough? There's already another mosque 4 blocks away. Should we force them to move? Is 2000 yards far enough? 10 miles? 100 miles?

The KKK was primarily motivated by Christianity. Should we move all Christian churches away from the Civil Rights Museum in Birmingham? Should we blame Emmit Till's death on Christianity?

Of course there is blame to be placed. But I would change that to "hard-line Islamic governments". There are plenty of people in power out there preaching hate - but the American Sufi Imam who is heading up this community center and prayer hall is certainly not one of them. And do remember that there were tens of thousands of people who protested in the streets of Iran for months despite government oppression because they considered the re-election of Ahmedinajad to be corrupt, and they preferred a much more moderate candidate for president. There's a lot more nuance out there than people are acknowledging.

Well said Jerome. Post #13. I agree 100%. If the people behind building this mosque had pure intentions it would not be an issue. The mosque and center would not be built on such a controversial site.

Did you support the war in Iraq Jeff? I bet you did....

Judging by my fellow Americans bigotry we sent 4,000 young men and women to their deaths to provide liberty to a bunch of rag head savages that have barely crawled out of the stone age.

If muslims are so bad why did we send those 4,000 young men and women to their deaths for them?

Decency would be to honor their deaths by supporting the constitution. The document they swore to defend and lost their lives doing so. Seems to me thats the least we owe them...

I doubt they went to fight for their country just so a Mosque could be built to celebrate the Jihadist-victory of 911... besides.. I never said they CANT build the mosque. It is just not decent. Those brave men and women also fought for the right of those Westboro Babtist loons to spread their hatred, but I doubt anyone finds it a decent thing to do. Constitutional right does not equal decency...

Considering their "mosque" is 8 blocks from "Ground Zero" now (didn't know that did you) how far away is far enough to be "decent".

Considering the LOCAL COMMUNITY overwhelmingly supports the community center...how far away is "decent" enough.

Considering that currently they have overflow into the sidewalk and need more space

Considering that GROUND ZERO is nothing but a construction site to CAPITALISM how far away is "decent" enough

It is actually 2 blocks from ground zero. I know this because I've lived there and seen both sites. Sorry to bother you with actual facts...

Who cares it should not be within a 100 blocks.

Sorry to interupt this discussion with a fact, but we didn't invade Iraq to fee the Iraqi people. We invaded Iraq on the flimsy pretext that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction which he might...MIGHT...be willing to supply to radical Islamic terrorists.

There were no WMD's in Iraq, as our intelligence community tried to tell Bush and Cheney. Saddam had destroyed his last stockpiles years beforehand to avoid another war with America.

The tragic deaths of those 4,000 brave American men and women were lost for nothing. The tens of thousands of wounded and maimed, likewise suffered their wounds to satisfy a grudge one man, George Bush, has against Saddam.

But how many Iraqis died, or were wounded or maimed? The last estimate I saw was well over 100,000 and they were believed to be mostly civilians. It may be higher now.

But the tragedy of the Gulf War has nothing to do with Freedom of Religion in this country. Equal protection under the law, freedom to practice your religion, that's the question facing America. We're being tested. Do we mean Freedom of Religion? Do we mean equality? Or is that just BS? That's what Osama Bin Laden wants the world to believe and so far we've done a heck of a good job proving him right.

Didn't know you were helping old Osama did you?

"Wow... a reasonable muslim that is capable of having some sympathy and decency... wonder how many death threats she is going to get from her fellow religion-of-peace-followers?"

None. But she will get a bunch from the extremists. I'd be surprised if she hasn't gotten a lot already because she certainly is not following the commandment to "hide your beauty."

Sorry Skip...*We invaded Iraq on the flimsy pretext that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction which he might...MIGHT...be willing to supply to radical Islamic terrorists.*

yes that was one of the stated reasons...along with "and assist in creating a representative but compliant government as a model for other Middle East nations"

read i.e.: freedom

@Nota,

Right, that second part was the driving force and why we thought "pre-emptive war" was a good idea. I don't know about you, but I would never support invading a country for this. Hell, I did not support invading Iraq for alleged WMD, because much of the so called eveidence was proven bogus by the inspectors, and because I find pre-emptiion as a doctrine for going to war morally objectionable.

These were all smoe screens to the big reason, "Saddam nationalized the oil." Much like the Iranians did before we helped BP (in an earlier form) overthrow the only "representative government" in the middle east, when they nationalized their oil.

skip Nicholson, Oklahoma City

Vietnam - John F Kennedy (D) - we were never attacked. 58,000 killed & 2,000 missing.
WWI - Woodrow Wilson (D) - merchant ships attacked, not America - 117,000 killed.
WWII - Franklin D Roosevelt (D) - Japan attacks US - We take out Japan justifiably, but declare war on Germany on our own. - 417,000 killed
N. Korea - Harry S Truman (D) - US never attacked - 390,000 killed
Yugoslavia - William J Clinton - US never attacked but invaded based on lies about a genocide taking place.

And finally we come to the Iraq "blunder" you mention. 4,413 casualties. Notice how this is a tiny fraction of previous wars, yet the left screams about this one the most? Notice the Iraq wars are the first ones they didn't start?

All Democrats claimed there were WMDs all the way back to the Clinton and Bush Sr years. Al Gore and many others criticized Bush Sr for not taking out Hussein and had heated discussions on the dangers he posed with WMDs. Over a million were slaughtered and buried in mass graves by Hussein. Hussein kicked out inspectors and the United Nations declared war on him.

The Democrats who had been calling for this war for over 2 decades got their wish and SOMEHOW the Democratic voter base conveniently FORGOT so they could blame it on Bush alone.

To add fuel to the speculation that the majority of the far left voter base is uneducated or easily manipulated, they also began calling the Republican party "warmongers" and many actually believe this even though history shows otherwise.

You think MSNBC is a real news site???

Yes.

You think Fox News is a real news site?

let's agree to disagree here. Every news site has an owner and that owner is either a democrat or republican and each one has their own point of view.

For MSNBC, 1+1 = 2. For Fox News, 1+1=2 and if you don't agree with that, you're a terrorist, a hater of america, a traitor and will be forced to endure the wrath of a momma grizzly.

All the news outlets have good stories, but you have to wade through the muck sometimes to get to them. It's not a bad idea to get the spin from CNN, MSNBC, Fox, BBC and a few other sites to see how everyone is spinning the stories, and to see which stories are on one site and not another.

Heheh, Tony. You're so right, but you may have noticed some people on here don't even bother reading all the way to the end of the headline, let alone the story. They probably found their way here by accident to begin with. They're definitely NOT going to expend the effort to read about it on any other site, even if they could find one.

LMAO Jeff...methinks you got the wrong "conservative" handbook. Put down the koolaide!

Oh my stupit little Notahypocrit will you ever get it. I think not....

One human family? Good one.

RN in Philly, "Islam is a religion of the dirty knife." And Christianity isn't?

Are you a moron or just trying to prevoke people?

Liberals are so easy. I have for fun on here then a barrel of monkeys.

Conservatives are just as easy to irritate.

1 - If a little girl gets raped by a black man, he's put to death.

If a little black girl gets raped by a white man, he high fives his cousin / wife.

2- All men are created equal? Ah....except when it comes American health "care".

3- Dinosaurs died out 65 million years ago, not 5,000 years ago.

4 - Gays are not gay by choice. You do not choose your hair colour, eye colour, skin colour.

5 - If you're a white teen mom and get knocked up, you make the cover of people magazine with your govenor mom. If you're a black teen mom, you get put into social housing.

6 - Sorry to burst your bubble, but not all terrorists are muslims, just ask the IRA what religion they are.

7 - Just because the words Al-Qaeda and Iraq both have the letter 'a' in them, does not constitute a link between the two.

8 - London, England was bombed for nearly 2 months straight during the blitz. If New York was placed in the same situation you guys would have peed in your pants.

Man oh man you are one sick individual. Your fisrt thoughts run to a black man raping a white women.

Jeff, let me correct you.

-Liberals love to bash white "state-rights" conservatives especially from the South.
-Conservatives seem to believe the only people worth caring about are white conservatives. Have you seen the last Republican convention vs Democrat. The Republican Party has become the party of angry white conservatives. On the other hand, the Democratic party has strong support from hispanics, asians, blacks, jews, muslims, and white liberals.

-Liberals are always striving to improve America and don't believe on resting on our laurels.
-Conservatives say they are proud of America except for the half that does not support their views. Liberals are also part of America.

-Liberals are intolerant of those that are intolerant of others, people like nazis and conservatiev homophobes
-Conservatives can't tolerate anything that is not white conservative and christian.

-Liberals are mainly secular and yes plenty are atheist including me. We believe in the seperation of religion and state. We do believe muslims in America have been mistreated because we know very few of them are terrorists.
-Conservatives want a christian religious theocracy and like retards believe all muslims are terrorists or terrorist sympathizers. Of course when all your friends are just like you, it easy to believe false stereotypes of other people.

Liberals do not hate the western world. The western world has advanced beyond barbaric super fundamentalist church in the government theocracy because of liberals. Feminism gave women equal rights. Secularism kept religion out of government. The liberal enlightenment that supported asking questions instead of relying on religious superstitions brought us out of the dark age. And the liberal believe in equality has granted rights to minority groups who previously didn't have them.

And don't tell me today's southern dominated, overwhelmingly white, "state-rights", Republican party is the same part as the Radical Republican party of Lincoln, which were from the liberal northeast.

@jeff-385410 Troll.

right on Jeff.

Why could he not just say " I dont think its a good Idea to build to build it there". What would be the big deal???

Jeff, STOP watching Fox News, that may heal Islamophobia in you.

Hey I like Muslims some of the women are pretty hot.

Hey I like Muslims some of the women are pretty hot.

Most of them are..

Why do you think the men keep them under burqa's!?

It's not a bad idea. Only the ignorant think that, and our President isn't ignorant.. even though he is Christian.

jeff-385410 wow.. nice generalization. So 'christian' of you to put stereotype people.

10 Reasons why the thinking above scares me:

1) Belief in absolute truths leads to intolerance

2) Who decides what is immoral? Is it someone who thinks women should not work? Is it someone who thinks no one should work on Sundays? etc.

3) Other people telling me that their belief that my choices impact them when they do not gives them the right to deny me happiness.

4) The assumption that it a liberal can not be a Christian

5) People who find fault in others and deny the same fault in themselves

6) People who are so busy arguing that they cannot listen to any other point of view.

7) People who blame according what they are told.

8) People who make broad assumptions.

9) People who think that the religion of the founding fathers should be used to interpret the Constitution.

10) That capitalistic greed has managed to buy the votes of people who should be following the very gospel they claim people who advocate for charity, tolerence, and peace are not following.

Yeah. There's totally no such thing as a liberal Christian.

cousins can marry in some states.

no, pretty sure that is illegal in every US State.

you have to go out of the country to marry a cousin. like mexico.

Are you for real? If Im a Jew? What kind of retard are you?

Christians/Jews kill more innocent than any other nation.

Wow I never new there was a Christianland.

No, but they believe in Jesus.

Read up - Muslims believe in Jesus as a prophet who will return to kill all the Christians! Do a little research and you'll find out the truth of what they believe... The Koran also gives them permission to lie if it furthers the cause of Islam.

They're naming this center for the Cordoba mosque in Spain that was built after they ripped down a 500 BC church. It's a war memorial that signifies victory! It's what they do - look at the Dome of the Rock - built on top of the site of Solomon's Temple in Jerusalem. Conquer and build - it's a repeated behavior and tradition for Muslims all over the world!

Conquer and build? Kind of like conquering the Iroquois, destroying their longhouses and building New York?

They're naming this center for the Cordoba mosque in Spain that was built after they ripped down a 500 BC church. It's a war memorial that signifies victory! It's what they do - look at the Dome of the Rock - built on top of the site of Solomon's Temple in Jerusalem. Conquer and build - it's a repeated behavior and tradition for Muslims all over the world!

"...the citizens of Cordova, Arabs, Christians, and Jews, enjoyed so high a degree of literary culture that the city was known as the New Athens. From all quarters came students eager to drink at its founts of knowledge."

http://www.kylecupp.com/2010/08/meaning-of-cordoba.html

Al-Qaeda and the Taliban have more in common with the Christians of the Dark Ages, than with the enlightened Moslems of Cordoba or Baghdad, who revived Greek science and philosophy. But I get the point: we need to censor ourselves in case the radical Islamists construe it simply as a victory, and consider the war won, and over (no more attacks on New York).

On the other hand, the Saudi's, and other conservative Arabs, might not be happy: to them Cordoba might be symbolic that, once again, the Moslem enlightenment, this time the 21st Century one, is taking place outside the Arab world.

Yes we do...as a prophet, we do not, however believe he is the son of God.

So you can actually say with a straight face that none of America's actions over the past several decades contributed at all to some people in the Middle East having a poor opinion of us?

We have people in our own country (Tim McVeigh, that other crazy pilot flying into the IRS buildings) that hate our government and try to kill people to show their displeasure, and you don't think that a region that has been exploited by rich countries for its resources and kicked around like a political football might have a few people that get angry with us?

Of course, none of this excuses what happened, and the USA has every right to hunt down and kill every last person remotely linked to the 9/11 plot. But neither should we be ignorant in believing that our actions around the globe do not sometimes have unintended consequences.

Al Franken said it best. I am paraphrasing from one of his books, but he basically said that the love that liberals have for their country is to conservative love for their country, as adult love is to child-like love. In other words, liberals love our country, but are willing to acknowledge flaws that exist and try to improve it. Conservatives tend to have unconditional love, seeing no flaws whatsoever and believing that any change or admission of error is unforgivable.

Imam Faisal spoke 100% truth. We did not deserve to be attacked, but we sure didn't go out of our way to make anyone like us over there. And now, nine years later, instead of trying to reconcile or build bridges to our own citizens who happen to want to exercise their constitutional right to worship, we focus on pettiness.

Go America!

THEIR constitutional right to worship??? I love how people hop off a boat/plane (border)and demand their constitutional rights. go try your right to worship in an islamic country and have fun getting killed and hung off a bridge for the world to see.

usa love it or leave it!!!!

Uh, rights are rights, Jordan. Everybody has them. That's why they're called rights.

AHAH jordan you'r as dumb as monkey. "If we demand constitution right to worship in islamic country and have fun getting kill" LOL so true. That's why we can never turn Iraq or any other nation into democracy like the U.S. We're not Saudi Arabia, Communist China, Iran etc.... We are the U.S of A, the greatest country on Earth. So you want USA turn to be like those islamic countries which denie their right to worship? Saudi, commie china, Iran etc.... those are worst countries so don't even compare our great country U.S of A to them, you're disgrace.

@jordan-2146664 You are correct that this is the U.S., not an "islamic country" or a theocracy so.. yes, as citizens of the united states, they have rights to worship whereever and whenever they please. Love it or leave it chief.

I did not just "jump off a boat and demand my rights" As a Muslim, my family has been here before the US has been here.

Yeah, Jordan, we should all be just as intolerant of the new or different as Saudi Arabia and Iran. No community center for American Muslims until Ahmedinajad builds a church and synagogue in Tehran! That'll show em!

So you can actually say with a straight face that none of America's actions over the past several decades contributed at all to some people in the Middle East having a poor opinion of us?

The reason they say these things is because 95% of Americans have NO IDEA the crimes the US has committed there in the past 50 years. Our foreign policy is why they hate us. The terrorist say so.

They don't say they hate us because we are Christian or because we are "western". They hate us because we exploit their lands, we back regimes they are pro US yet anti-populist. Why in Iran, we overthrow a democratically elected president and installed a Pro US dictator for "strategic" reasons... Come one... how would you feel if someone did that to us?

Now does that excuse the killing of innocents by extremist? Of course not... We would be fools however to ignore than over 1 Billion people sympathize with them because in many cases, we are wrong too.

N-O-T-H-I-N-G justifies the killing of innocent men, women and children! END OF STORY! And about the US.......OK our government has supported Democracies, and freedom from tyrants, dictators, communistic reign, socialistic barbarians, murderers, and pure EVIL............perhaps we should practice "isolationism" once again and allow the slaughter, rape, pillaging, starvation, disease, and forced rule in other countries while "looking the other way?"

The US may have done some wrong things, but at it's core, WE ARE STILL a good nation! Please spare the anti-American rhetoric you have absorbed during your liberally "poisoned" education, and upbringing! If you feel America is so bad......get out! Good riddance of yet another liberally "diseased" mind!

I couldn't agree with you more. This forum has sure turned ugly. Of course the Muslim's in this "country" have the right to worship. We call that religious freedom. One would think their leadership would be more sensitive to the people in the community and that is all that really matters. Those of us from other areas don't have a dog in that hunt. It is true that the fastest growing religion in the world is the Muslim faith (or so I have read) and that is because they are baby making machines. All democratic nations that freely elect their government will be saturated with Muslim politicians in 50 years. I doubt seriously though if they will be Taliban or Al Queda (sp).

Anyway this all started with Miss America/USA, Queen of Skin whatever her title is. I'm willing to bet that most of the Muslim women wearing Burka's wish they could enjoy her freedoms and shame on the muslin man that would like to put her in one.

time to take are country,we the people of the united state need to remenber the UNITED part all this pettey crap about is what is wrong with us we fight more with are selfs then trying to work to make this land better for are kids and grandkids . hate is evil it kills the soul

It kind of is our fault. We were trying to get one up on the USSR during the cold war and so we supplied Afghanistan with weapons and training. One of those soldiers we trained was named Osama bin Laden. Ring any bells?