I wouldn't entirely blame the parent for the child's actions. Parents can teach their kids right & wrong to the best of their abilities, but ultimately, the kid is going to make their own decisions in life. Being a good parent doesn't guarantee a child who makes perfect choices anymore than being a bad parents guarantees a child will always make poor choices.

If she wants to spread her legs and tell the whole world then let her. we all know that women joke about being committed just as much as men do. this proves beyond any doubt that she is nothing more than a walking sperm bank willing to spread her legs for anything the has that special look and an organ that gets hard.

Parents need to get ahead of their Effed up offspring by stalking their actions on the Internet? Disturbing on many levels? Yeah, I would say so!

The quote "“I would never intentionally hurt the people that are mentioned on that.” and the description of this perversions as a "Teachable moment" are two of the quotes from the article that stuck out for me.

I believe this this thing did not CARE whether she hurt anyone as long as she got the spotlight by ANY means. As far as the "Teachable moment" thing, with the admonition to be more discreet on the Internet (AKA, as long as you do not let anyone know what you are doing ANYTHING is OK. Just don't let anyone know what a Perv you really are), it is just more of the same BS being foisted on children who eventually grow up.

This woman is as bad as any low-class male braggart who exhibits their lack of breeding and decency in the bar with the guys. Only difference, MSNBC gives her crap airplay. Obviously, they think Society in general values this corrosive junk above real hard news of the many things that are impacting our lives today. As much a commentary on the state of Society as the poorly focussed objectives of the Media.

This is not my joke, but I thought it appropriate. If a key opens many locks it is called a master key. If a lock is opened by many keys it is a crappy lock.

parents can't be all bad , she did go to Duke and you can bet that if she did anything even close too this Duke who never let her attend....then the other side WOMEN are as bad as men just normally not so public about it ...well this is when equal rights lead.equal on all levels and even better ant some others they use power point

I think you are off topic here. Let us not forget we are not dealing with a high school student, we are dealing with a college graduate who is an adult. Her actions has no bearing on the parents at this point.

Her biggest mistake was not capitalizing on it - she could be the female equivalent of Tucker Max. I'd read it - I found "I hope they serve beer in hell" despite the fact that his behavior was absolutely horrible - it was an adventure, it was entertaining, and he's an idiot. It'd be up to her how she spun her stories, but I think she should contact a publisher.

That's right, it takes two to tango. I think good for her. Maybe it will teach guys a lesson on 'kiss and tell' and make 'em think next time they brag about the blonde they 'bagged last Friday night' and couldn't even tell you her name. And no, I'm not gay.

What patent nonsense! I don't care how many people she had sex with. That isn't the issue. Her carelessness involves more people than herself. I am not aware that any of her sexual partners signed up to be internet sensations when they jumped in bed with her. She is thoughtless and clueless. She can have all of the sex she can stand...I don't care. I do care about her stupid decision to share it with her "friends" who chose to share it with the entire world.

Oh please Mickey the men who got high ratings are bragging to their friends about how great they are and the ones who got a low grade are walking around with bruised egos. Big whoop!

Hold on a minute. First, what about the men on this list. Where is their discretion. They too are going out and picking up a person from bars. Neither the men nor the woman have much to say for themselves. ALL of their collective families should be questioning what they have taught their children. I still see the double standard exists - boys will be boys, but girls are whores? Geesh.

As for her culpability, the problem here is that she sent it to a few friends - THEY DISTRIBUTED IT WITHOUT HER PERMISSION. So, the people who have committed the harrassment are her friends.

Funny . . . although 42 pages? My first thought was, "someone has too much time on their hands."

Jeremy - How does this teach guys a lesson? The only embarrassing part is that she is not very cute (and the one guy who scored low). But that can be explained with the "beer goggles" argument.

I disagree, if a male athlete did this, he would be in jail for harassment, sued and put on a sexual preditors list. (see: Ben Rothlisberger, picking up a drunk girl in a bar or the Duke LaCross team, hiring a drunk hooker that filed a flase report). But your attitude is correct, there IS a double standard, but it does not support men. the same has heppened for female teachers ALL over the country, the story hits for 1 day, end ot it, she cries and is let off the hook.

I just think this girl's parents have got to be SO proud of 'Daddy's' little girl. Now we should have a shirt, 'my son and money were blown at Duke'!

She may be a Duke grad but good luck getting a job with that slide show out there. Companies don't want to hire sluts - male or female. The reputation she has built cannot be erased and her Duke education will be worth very little.

I have seen and heard lists from men that are exactly the same and yeah it is in bad taste but no different than what this woman has done. Men sit together and talk about women just like women sit together and talk about men the only diff here is it got sent to people on the internet by her friends. Big deal! I listened to one of my friends describing the face her husband makes when he has a climax the other night over drinks and we all had a good laugh because we should be able to sit around and talk about sex without it being so taboo.

@difernet:...."without her permission"? there is no caveat or disclaimer here! she published without the other "participant's" permission... does that not parallel your objection? Litigating this would be interesting !

Did everyone get upset when Wilt Chamberlain revealed that he slept with 20,000 women or Magic Johnson tried to out do him? Of course not! I'm just grateful none of my college girlfriends ever rated my selfish *ss and posted it to all!

If she had not learned by now that the possibility of this getting out on the internet existed, well, like the saying goes, 'You can't fix stupid'! what a waste of education money!

The sexual escapades don't phase me in the slightest. It's the though that this person actually thought that she could email something like this to friends, and not have it forwarded.

If you email it, it's the same as broadcasting it to the world. It can, and if funny, will, be forwarded.

The one's with the low rankings can easily spin this to preserve their egos. If it were me, I would say, "Once I saw her naked, I wanted to get it over with as fast as possible. Can you blame me? The beer goggles were not strong enough that night."

Funny Cali! I was thinking it would help the guys learn that 2 minutes of intercourse does not equal a pleasurable experience for the women they sleep with and in the future this may help them be better lovers.

If a guy did it, he'd be in court. Evidently, publishers are viewing it as part of her portfolio. Too bad she didn't use fake names. But then it would have been no big deal.

It's not just about sex, its about taking advantage of people.

Thoughts from Cali, guys do the same thing. They brag amongst themselves in locker rooms, bars, parties. Nothing is ever written. But if "Jane" is a good lay, the whole football team could know about it within hours.

If you read the story at Jezebel.com you will see she quotes several "subjects" asking her how they ranked on her list. These guys knew what was going on. They knew she had slept with their friends and decided to go for it anyway. They are only upset because the list got out. If I were her, I would find myself some new friends. Some that can be trusted to keep private things private.

Oh, and I dont see how this is any different then the kind of "locker room" talk boys do. And nobody cries foul on them. When A guy sleeps around with a bunch of girls, he becomes a hero to all this friends. But if a girl sleeps with a few boys (doesnt even have to be as many as the before mentioned man), she is a slut. It's a double standard and it sucks. This was just a situation that got out of control and I feel sorry for her.

But like I said before, I would be finding some different, more trustworthy friends.

"Boys do it all the time."

That being said, two wrongs do not make a right. For someone going to Duke , she is not very smart. OR maybe she is..look at the publicity she is getting.

The sad thing is, no one has any shame any more. She said "a good story to tell grandkids". YUCK Who wants to know their Granny was a slut. Eeewww.

The fact is that these 'kiss and tell' stories apply to both sexes. I remember an episode several years ago when two boys in a California high school wrote about their sexual adventures. When the story went public, those guys were subjected to a lengthy shaming on a national level.

There is no sexist element to this story. To do what all these people did is bad behavior, to circulate it is bad taste, but what the hell! All people love to test the limits.

mel, I have to disagree, if a guy did this he would probably be charged with harassment or rape. But a girl does this and it is a 'teachable moment'. If some of the guys were inebriated, they may have not consented to her....wouldn't that be rape?

If a guy did it you would think it was funny. The only reason anyone is upset is because she is a woman.

But mel, you miss the big picture. If a male did this, he'd be lambasted by the press, with attorneys coming out of the woodwork to sue him for having inebriated sex (date rape), and anything else they could throw at him. Oprah would have a round table of women saying how disgusting it is to demean women like this and it is only a sign of how society treats women.

Well, it is really a sign of how society allows women to do whatever they want, demean whoever they want and say, "Man Up" afterward, justifying the same behavior they would be "devastated" by in turning it around. I don't think this would be funny coming from a guy and I would NEVER justify and make fun of what he did. It is almost comical to see how different genders react to a despicable action. One is held responsible for degrading all females in society, the other is a poor victim who is getting undue attention to a little thing she put together.

It is wrong by either gender, and by minimizing her actions, you only justify behavior that is, and should be, unacceptable. It's a "teaching moment" for women, most likely jail time for a man, right? Think about it past the societal gender block.

Jeremy - and "locker room" talk is bad because? . . .

Lauren - I'm disappointed. As a female you should know that when a girl gets called a "slut" it is either from other women, or men she will not sleep with. The fact is, girls call each other sluts WAY more than guys do. This "double standard" is in place because of the whole competitive female nature.

My favorite quote: "What is the difference between a slut and a ho? A ho sleeps with everyone, a slut sleeps with everyone but you."

"Oh please Mickey the men who got high ratings are bragging to their friends about how great they are and the ones who got a low grade are walking around with bruised egos. Big whoop!"

So just to get this straight, you think a list of women's names posted on the Internet with guys discussing how good they were in bed would be a good thing for them, yes? And that if they had ANY issue with it, you'd say, big whoop? Or would that be demeaning to those women.

Are you in favor of Internet lists of the names of men and women and how good they are in bed? I wonder if there'd be any legal action out of that? Probably not if there were enough people like you who felt it was a good thing, right? Or do you only believe it is a funny thing when a woman posts about a man? Please do respond. Do you think a list a guy makes, naming women and stating in their own subjective view the women's sexual ability as a good thing or a demeaning thing towards women?

You continue to say guys and women talk about it all the time. That if a guy did it, it would be funny. But you're missing the societal angle. A list naming women may be funny to the group of guys, and the list naming men is apparently funny to a group of women, but it is the media coverage and acceptance that is the difference. If a man did it, he'd be sued and damned by every news article out there (as he should be). A woman does it and news treats it light-heartedly, funny to demean...as long as it is not a woman...or do you believe it would be treated the same in the media if a guy did it? Again, please do respond. I'm guessing your justification is a way of denying any societal responsibility or accountability for women...but I'll wait to see.

To Mel and all others like her:

If a guy did this, he would be called a pervert, a disgusting piece of trash, and he would likely be sued for sexual harrassment. This woman used specific names of the men, not fictitious ones and unless she had video to corroborate her claims, and her ratings, then she can find herself in some serious legal trouble.

To assume that a guy posting this would be funny shows not only your ignorance but also your stupidity. Think before you speak next time. I personally don't have a problem with women doing this sort of thing, but then again, I'm monogamous and careful about whom I have slept with. This girl is an idiot.

I have to say that I have been talked about by the guys and I don't find it demeaning in the least it is just the way it is and we women talk about the guys too. My beef is that everyone thinks women have to be virginal when the same is not expected of men. Some people are calling this girl a whore and that is wrong.

her parents must be so proud.

We get it Mel you like to give it up to anyone and everyone and you do not care if they write a paper about it. But some of those guys might , just might be respectful to women and did not deserve this just because some guy banged you and called you a skank.

"I have to say that I have been talked about by the guys and I don't find it demeaning in the least"

But society DOES. It is the complete public acceptance of this act that would completely turned around with the genders reversed. If a man had made a list like this and passed it around, ANY man speaking as you do for this woman would be considered a pig. Right or wrong, there is a bias in the ability to demean. A man does it to a woman, it is abuse, or worse. A woman does it to a man, and it is downright funny, right? I don't really care one way or the other...as long as BOTH situations are treated the same. The responsibility and accountability that women have in society for their actions is nowhere near the equality they so often feign. Equal rights, but when it comes to that whole being held responsible thing, I'll just bob my head and say it was a joke and I'm really sorry. Everybody has a good laugh and nothing is truly learned. I believe men and women should be held equally responsible for their actions. It is the only way to truly ingrain equality into society.

If an older sibling and a younger sibling did the same thing, it's the older sibling that is truly held responsible. Even though they BOTH have the same ability to do things, do you think the older sibling feels equality? No. If you're held responsible at a higher level, you'll never feel the other is equal. If both children are treated equally in accountability and responsibility, they grow up with mutual respect.

It goes past this issue to a society feigning equality. There are steps society can take to bring about mutual respect and true equality, but right now, the younger sibling is having too much fun...

She seems so Proud of her four years at Duke. Between her drinking and partying, where did she find the time for studying?

Did everyone get upset when Wilt Chamberlain revealed that he slept with 20,000 women or Magic Johnson tried to out do him? Of course not! I'm just grateful none of my college girlfriends ever rated my selfish *ss and posted it to all!

Difference is, neither of them named and rated the women they had slept with. And by the way - yes, I WAS horrified by Wilt's statement.

Slut! Kiss & tell, or shall I say @!$%# & tell. I bet her parents are proud. In a few years, when she grows up, and has a family of her own, I'll bet she does her best to hide this from her kids.

15 minutes of fame maust be paid for with a lifetime of reality.

Perhaps the men she slept with should rate her, publicly, on the internet.

Wow, how proud her parents must be.

First a Judge doing coke with a stripper and now this. Did they put something in the water down south, lately? What's next?

Wow, I bet her parents are so proud.

I have seen and heard lists from men that are exactly the same and yeah it is in bad taste but no different than what this woman has done. Men sit together and talk about women just like women sit together and talk about men the only diff here is it got sent to people on the internet by her friends. Big deal! I listened to one of my friends describing the face her husband makes when he has a climax the other night over drinks and we all had a good laugh because we should be able to sit around and talk about sex without it being so taboo.

But it is a big deal because when your sitting around talking to friends it is only between you and those people and after that it is pretty much forgotten, when it is put on the internet it is always up there and it is available for over 6 billion people to see. Are all lists wrong yes they are, but this wasn't just no ordinary list this was a power point presentation that is over 40 slides long with graphs and other graphics with full names. You know as well as I do that when ever a male creates a list like this one that becomes public he is condemned to the strongest degree and generally law enforcement is involved to some degree as well.

Another thing I would like to point out is that in your example of your friends husband you neglected to mention say or tell us his full name along with where he works. Unless your willing to tell us this friends husband full name and where he works it is the not same as putting up a list on the internet for everyone else to see that has full names along with where they go to school(work) along with graphs and other graphics to represent skill level.

So should you be able to talk about sex and your sex life yes but make sure the details you are talking about are ok'd by your partner and also don't embarrass or humiliate them.

My beef is that everyone thinks women have to be virginal when the same is not expected of men.

No one is saying women can't enjoy sex but it is expected of both sexes male and female they exercise some discretion when talking about the their sexual partners and their sex life.

Oh please Mickey the men who got high ratings are bragging to their friends about how great they are and the ones who got a low grade are walking around with bruised egos. Big whoop!

It is a big whoop considering what bruised egos especially when relating to ones sex life does to people, people have been known to commit suicide over it, I have known several high schoolers who have committed suicide over their private being made public. I have seen people too afraid or embarrassed to approach the opposite sex because of what has been exposed. In a case such as this the reason why these men have bruised egos is because the woman who created this list with graphs intended to humiliate and embarrass these men but only within a very small group of people mainly her friends. It is very difficult to bruise ones ego if you don't have the intention of humiliating or embarrassing the person

Another thing to keep in mind mel, this woman also included pictures of the men as well. So if your willing to give us the full name, along with where he works along with a picture of your friends husband then you won't be a hypocrite when you say it isn't a big deal. If your not willing to provide those then it is a big deal even to you.

"well this is when equal rights lead.equal on all levels"

Twisted logic. Women certainly have the right to act as poorly as some men. That is true. But the responsibility and accountability is skewed. In order for women to truly be equal, they need to be held to the same responsibility for their actions. Pretend a guy did this (which he couldn't, because he'd be sued), the media would report it with a smile and laugh about it right? Saying it's just a list and it's a good "teaching moment." Ummm...NO! There is an inherent responsibility for men not to demean women, but for some reason we get all stupid when it goes the other way. Women demean, hit, and sexually assault men...it's hilarious, right? It's not just about having an equal right to do something. It's about being held accountable and responsible for your actions where true equality is earned. We're not there yet. We've got the action down...now it's just the responsibility. But who's going to fight for responsibility? Only those that truly want equality and not privilege.

But where is the victimization in that. How could one group continue to do things that we chastise others for? If you believe demeaning men is funny, then men and women both, you may as well put on your wifebeater shirt and grab a beer, as you apparently would also have to believe demeaning women is funny too...I mean in an equal society, right?

"She" is not a child. "She" is a full grown adult responsilbe for her own actions.

"I have to say that I have been talked about by the guys and I don't find it demeaning in the least"

Mel, please post your real name with exactly what all of the men said. Are you beginning to understand? Would you feel the least bit uncomfortable? What if one or more of them said something negative, would you include that? What if you didn't have a choice? Still pretty funny though, huh?

""She" is not a child. "She" is a full grown adult responsilbe for her own actions."

Really? So far I've only seen kid gloves used in the reporting. No serious discussions of how this emphasizes the stature of men in society, how this is linked to domestic violence, and everything else that would be "exposed" if a man had done this instead of a woman. She is not held responsible...only a slight embarrassment while she laughs with her friends. It is an adult action with a child's responsibility.

Speaking of ratings, based on the picture in the article, this "woman" is not very attractive.

Indeed, she must be smart.

A viral sensation...not to mention a burning sensation....bwahahahahahahaha!

"Indeed, she must be smart."

Or maybe just spiteful. And it can be fully justified, as long as she is female and the only victims are males (probably even a few intoxicated...wait, isn't that the DEFINITION of date rape?) The thing that gets me is that she feels what she did is so within her rights she admits to it and then sends it to her friends. But stop and look at it...were any females demeaned in any way? Were the only victims of her degradation male...well then whew! Now we can have a good laugh instead of getting all up in arms about how women are treated.

Wow, I bet her parents are so proud.

Let's hope none of the guys that get humiliated by this decide to commit suicide, otherwise she be in big touble!

"Funny Cali! I was thinking it would help the guys learn that 2 minutes of intercourse does not equal a pleasurable experience for the women they sleep with and in the future this may help them be better lovers."

So I guess Mel, that in the opposite, guys posting the names and sexual ability of the women they sleep with would only help the women learn how to be better lovers as well. An interesting concept...wonder how far that would get before you cry foul.

One student who was on the list, claimed that when she had her legs spread wide apart, he shouted her name out and heard her name echo.

mopman4 and umfan

if it had been a mal writing this paper then all it would be said is boys will be boys its unfortunate that there is still people out there thinking that if a girl has sex there sluts but if a boy does there a man

Gives a new meaning to spread sheet! Jokes aside, I think it is very sad that any person thinks sex is the only way to get attention. I sincerely hope condoms were worn. She obviously does not think much of herself or others.(And, yes I would say the same thing for any young man.) You would think a college education would help an individual improve themselves. I feel badly for her family, unless they are as morally bankrupt as she is.

It is ok for women to have sex. It is ok for men to have sex. The only thing she might have done wrong is publishing details and names.

It does not lessen her to enjoy sex. It makes her a better person to be honest about what we all know. We like sex. Men and Women.

And there is nothing wrong with having it.

The whore force is strong with this one.

"The only thing she might have done wrong is publishing details and names."

MIGHT have done wrong? Really? That's like saying the only thing Bernie Madoff MIGHT have done wrong was taking people's money. It didn't lessen his enjoyment of spending it. It makes him a better person to be honest about what we all know. We like spending money. Men and women. And there is nothing wrong with doing it.

It's not about the sex...it's about the demeaning behavior. NOT acceptable for men OR women.

Women act like whores and then wonder why men treat them like whores. It's not that hard to figure out ladies.

Thoughts from Cali - You make an interesting point. And I have to agree with you. Women are easily a girl's worst critics. We can be harsh, nasty, and like you said competitive. I suppose the "double standard" could be a product of women's competitiveness. I suppose if she didnt want this out there she should have kept it to herself. But I still maintain that she should have been able to trust her friends. And since they obviously didnt have her back, she should find some new ones. Has she graduated already? Sounds like a good time to move to me. New scenery, new friends, new life.

You have to admit the situations are a little different. While Owen didn't mean for her powerpoint to go beyond a few friends, she did create it, and every adult should know you don't write something down unless you want someone, somewhere to find it. Tyler killed himself after other people broadcasted his private sexual buisness on the web. If Karen's friends had hacked into her computer, or wrote a blog about her experiences, your comparison would be more accurate.

I kinda thought that this morning when I heard the story right after the story of that poor lady whose husband was shot by mexican pirates and the mexican government won't help her recover his body. Then this. This thing probably wasnt too bad before they reported on it. It really isnt that big a deal that she did it, its creative. It is no difference than if she had just wrote of them all in a diary. Its only because it got on the internet. The guys she mentions probably have just as many notches on their belts. They just didnt detail their experiences and the world get a hold of it.

I wonder if Ms. Owen includes this PowerPoint in her Resume package as she is telling potential employers about her Duke education and all the skills she can bring to their organization. I am sure Possible Employers will be seeing "Potential Lawsuits" written all over her application.

Will all the information available On-Line Ms. Owen obviously displayed Bad Judgment and Poor Taste. I suspect she will be living with the consequences of her actions for quite some time.

By the way... this story seems a bit one sided. Where are the men's ranking and critiques of Ms. Owen? I can think of a variety of categories that she may have ‘Scored’ in... Intelligence and Class are not two of them.

Boys... bring on the Lawsuits.

JMichael - this is the best reply I have read so far.

So lets get all 13 of these boys to give there feedback of Ms. Owens. I'm sure she a great hit to be banged by every guy on the squad. They had sex with her because they new she was easy.

FYI: a defence to any defamation civil suit, is the truth. Ms. Owen cannot be found liable if what she wrote is the truth.

my3, what if one of the boys (**one who have lower rating) commits suicide, should we then make her accountable? if yes then only if something bad happens then its criminal else funny, saying that, had if Clementi didn't committed suicide then his sex act would have been funny? ur thoughts

"Some critics of Ms. Owen will say that she never should have created or sent the document she did. That may be so; however, those critics must keep in mind that Ms. Owen sent the document to several close “friends”, and expected those “friends” to keep her correspondence private. Unfortunately for Ms. Owen, that did not happen. I only hope that the broadcasting of Ms. Owen’s sexual history does not have the same deadly consequences that resulted when Mr. Clementi’s experiences were made public."

A quick question for you on this. If the student who made the presentation was a boy and rated and graded the girls breast sizes, flexibility and tightness on campus, would you be upset at the media for bringing it to light because of the implications it might have for the boy...or would you be looking at him like a pig and wondering about the well being of the girls he degraded? It truly is an interesting view of societal values, especially where gender is concerned.

From what I gather, it sounds as if you believe she is being victimized by the media. So if a boy did this, would we be looking at him like a victim of the media as well, or would the girls still maintain victim status by being his victims? Victims are people who have things happen to them that are not a direct result of their own behavior...actions and words. Are they all victims...are none of them victims, or are just women victims?

Should we then start posting names of women with their ratings, or is this type of behavior wrong?

You failed to consider that the media has not broadcast the names and photographs of the young men written about by Ms. Owen.

The today show didnt, some of the media outlets spent the time blurring specifics before posting, but many of the websites posting this before it went viral left pictures and names for all the world to see. The unblurred, unedited versions are out there.

"You failed to consider that the media has not broadcast the names and photographs of the young men written about by Ms. Owen."

Right, so if a male had done this to females on campus, as long as the media didn't post the girls' names, and they posted his, then he is the victim and we should feel sorry for him? I think not. There would be joyous celebration that his name was made public and a rush to hide all names of the women so defined. What I'm saying is if you take it from the opposite gender, the songs change dramatically. It is NOT right for a male to do this to females, they shouldn't be demeaned like that...it borders on bullying and abuse...especially when you share it with others. But what seems to be missing from a lot of people's logic is that it is NOT right for a female to do this to males, they shouldn't be demeaned like that...it borders on bullying and abuse...especially when you share it with others. But when it happens TO females, society crys out (as it should) and places responsibility on the male (as it should)...and when it happens to males, many get a good laugh and talk about how upset this must make her and place responsibility on the media for "persecuting" her by making what she did public.

It's a strange phenomena really. The acceptance of sexist behavior in society, as long as it only goes one way. I've seen a shift in many women in our society that seem to take on the personification of the chauvinistic males of yesterday. They are also the ones to be the most demonstrative about sexist behavior...and then turn around and become the exact thing they say they loathe, justifying their current behavior by comparing what those they hate did in years gone by.

You cannot justify a wrong against someone else, because of a historical event that didn't even include the person you wronged.

If you re-read my original comment, I did not condone Ms. Owen’s behviour. My issue is with the national journalists reporting the storey, not Ms. Owen.

If you re-read my original comment, I did not condone Ms. Owen’s behviour. My issue is with the national journalists reporting the storey, not Ms. Owen.

I did read, and re-read what you wrote. You took the story of Tyler Clement, someone who had his sexual activity broadcast without his consent and compared it to this current situation. The comparison is correct, your analysis is flawed. Think about it. A college student sends out sexual information on another college student...that student commits suicide and it is reported in the press. You see the suicide student as a victim and the student that sent out the information as the perpetrator. Now when you get a girl who sends out sexual information on other college students...those students are put on display for everyone and it is reported in the press. Only this time, the victim is the student to sent out the information and the perpetrator is the press? Weird...same scenario, different victims.

The reality is that it is your comparison of the same scenario ends with you seeing different victims. So when a guy does it, he is a dirtbag, the victim is the one whose information was released...however, when a girl does it, she becomes the victim of the media that reports it. Hmmm....

Just in case you forgot what you wrote:

In light of the recent media attention surrounding the tragic death of Tyler Clement, the Today Show has exemplified the definition of the word hypocrite. All media providers have quickly, and justifiably, criticized the two students who broadcast the sexual experience of Mr. Clementi, and yet, these same media providers are broadcasting the sexual experiences of Karen Owen without so much as second sober thought on what consequences this may have in her life.

I never called anyone, male or female, a dirtbag. I criticized the media for broadcasting the storey. To reiterate, Ms. Owen's sexual experiences are not of national concern. If you understood the word hypocrisy, you would understand my comment.

Sadly enough, this is what a lot of colleges are producing in our society and culture today. Since there are no longer any absolutes or set guidelines to go by; and something to help young people actually establish and achieve their aspirations and goals in life, they use college for social gatherings and entertainment. And just to think that a lot of these students are getting grants and free financial assistance to attend college for these reasons.

To get back to my statement just briefly about no absolutes or set guidelines to go by; I know that will go cross grain with some people. What I am saying here is; There is no longer any right or wrong, no good or bad, no white or black, no moral or immoral, etc..., it is all decided by perspective alone.

I'm not talking about Religious beliefs here or Christian values at all, so don't go that direction on me. I'm talking about the; 'Jiminy Cricket type of let your conscience be your guide.' Where is the conscience of people today? They may have lost it when we accepted personal perspective as being equally valid as absolutes, no right and wrong, white or black, good or bad, etc...

Now Duke is ashamed and afraid of what is going to be reflected on their college because of this young college grad that appears to be; attempting to stir up trouble, or create a negative impression and mark against their school.

The ones who were involved in all of this are now wanting to claim defamation of character. I'm sorry to inform them but this is not an issue of defamation of character, it is a confirmation of their character. No one likes to talk about consequences any more, they want to play the game by their own rules, and want to win every time. It's not going to happen friend...

In no way am I upholding, and defending the young woman that is involved here either. I would think that she would be embarrassed to run around talking about how many men she had been to bed with, but remember here: "There is no right, and no wrong, no moral and no immoral." Just perspective.

I suspect the young woman; down deep in her heart, is not proud of the life she has lived, and she wanted to find some retribution against the young men who were involved with her. Never the less, they are all equally guilty, the young woman and the men and (in my opinion here) it is not right to attempt to smear mud on someone else in an attempt to distract from the mud that is on you.

Again I say; it is not an issue of defamation of character, it is a confirmation of their true character and has just brought to the surface all that has been swept under the carpet. It may be, and (in my opinion) should be a great embarrassment to all involved, but (in my opinion once more) there is no case against the young woman. She stated fact of what happened and gave her opinion on her perspective of what happened.

I think the most embarrassing thing for some of the young men involved, they were not rated as the Mr. Studly that they thought they were. They ended up with a Mr. Dudley rating. Lol...

"If you understood the word hypocrisy, you would understand my comment."

That is actually quite funny. Since I do understand hypocrisy, I fully understand your comment. She is a victim of the media, the perpetrator. She's got to be a victim in some way, shape, or form somehow I guess. Doesn't matter what she did, doesn't matter you compare a victim to a perpetrator and come up with a different victim.

So maybe I'm not being very clear...let me ask you one question. Do you think the students that put out the video on the gay student who killed himself are victims of the media? If yes, then I understand your comparison, I don't agree with it, but I understand it. If you believe the gay student who killed himself is the victim, then the hypocrisy would only be in seeing a different victim in the same circumstance, not in the reporting of the event.

Both events were reported. One stating the perpetrators released a video that gave reason for the victim, a fellow student to kill himself, the other stating a perpetrator released a powerpoint presentation, that gave reason for the victims, her fellow students to be demeaned (and as of yet, none have killed themselves to my knowlege).

The hypocrisy lies in who you see as a victim, not in how the reporting was done.

I bet you would think differently if this had been a man doing it on a bunch of girls.

I hardly see how it can be much different from the guys who have exposed sex tapes with exgirlfriends/exwives or guys who brag about having sex with specific girls to all the guys on campus and in their frat house. I don't think she intended for it to be released publicly, and that's the difference.

jeez pookiebear look at all your comments. hate men much? hardcore feminist are we?

pookie....so she never meant for it to get out, so I guess it's all ok.....I mean Dahmer never meant for that last kid to get out, but dang it he did....

Just because I try to have an objective opinion doesn't make me a man-hater. :) I suppose that is the only point you can think of in your argument? I suppose I should instead aspire to be a woman who lacks the ability to think for herself.

I never said this situation is ok. Double standards are not ok. How do we know she wanted this to be out in the open? Her friends are the ones who passed it on!

no, just commenting on your vigourous defense of her actions. I mean another guy just killed himself because his business was put out there for all the world to see (that gay guy from rutgers), and the people who did that to him are probably going to jail. BUT according to you all these guys are "such victims" for being upset their business is being put out there. just saying...

wrong is wrong whether male female black white whatever

i'm sure you don't hate men, the comments i saw just came off as such

I think the situation at Rutgers is different because of the intention to do harm. His roommate intended for him to be embarrassed and feel ashamed. And he and the friend's actions are absolutely wrong. If the girl at Duke had the intention to embarrass and shame these guys, why didn't she post the PPT herself? We all know who she is now anyway. Why do you fail to acknowledge that this is just a flip-side of what collegiate/teen/adult men have done to women multiple times and in many other ways? I would speculate that if she knew her friends were going to forward on her presentation, maybe she would have thought to make the guys names and herself anonymous (or maybe not even make it). She was stupid in trusting her friends, and who hasn't trusted the wrong people?

If she didn't want for it to be in the open then she shouldn't have written it down. The internet isn't brand new...this shouldn't have been a surprise. The fact the she didn't mean for it to be released doesn't lessen the humiliation of those about whom she chose to write. "I didn't mean it" isn't much of a defense for anything.

The guy just killed himself because he was 'outed' online. Some college prick's erectile dysfunction problem isn't quite as bad. They make drugs for that. It serves these guys right. After all, they probably just considered her another notch in their bed post they bragged about the next day.

Pookiebear, I've read several of your posts on this article all somewhat defending the degenerate actions of a poor little girl who’s sociological deviancy prevents her from knowing that abstinence is the foreplay of a magical physical experience. Instead she calculates, rates and documents the prowess of the masses leaving her carcass as a gift to the man she may someday deem her sole mate. And you look up to her for that? Or defend her? A man wants a woman who he see’s in a different light not one who’s past he can relive in a forum. Good luck with your desire to advance women to the level of the dogs that adore them.

You're wrong if you think that people would think it was FUNNY if a guy did this! It was wrong regardless of the sex of the author. If you think that she didn't mean for it to get out, you don't know human nature. If it was only for amusement, why name names? I have 4 grown children, all college grads,my youngest is a senior this year, and they all had a name for this type of a person.(Ironic, since all four went to different schools!) P.S. They had a male and a female version.

Rob68

pookie....so she never meant for it to get out, so I guess it's all ok.....I mean Dahmer never meant for that last kid to get out, but dang it he did....

lmao! and he looked pretty tastey too! on topic, her intentions do not mean diddly, or bo diddly either. this whole generation needs to wake up to the fact that whatever you post, send, text, write down can and will be available for the whole world to see. sounds to me like she just wanted revenge on some of these guys, maybe they didn't call her after she slutted around with them.

In all actuality, I don't look up to people because they have or have not been sexually promiscuous. I personally believe it is a disservice for anyone (male and female) to have a high sex partner count. Morality aside, because you emotionally bond with every person you are with and that decreases the odds of being able to have a healthy relationship with a permanent life-partner. I don't believe sex with as many people as you can makes you a more empowered person. I'm defending the situation because people are so easily biased against women who have a higher number of sex partners.

I wonder if Ms. Owen includes this PowerPoint in her Resume package as she is telling potential employers about her Duke education and all the skills she can bring to their organization. I am sure Possible Employers will be seeing "Potential Lawsuits" written all over her application.

Will all the information available On-Line Ms. Owen obviously displayed Bad Judgment and Poor Taste. I suspect she will be living with the consequences of her actions for quite some time.

By the way... this story seems a bit one sided. Where are the men's ranking and critiques of Ms. Owen? I can think of a variety of categories that she may have ‘Scored’ in... Intelligence and Class are not two of them.

Boys... bring on the Lawsuits.

JMichael, I agree. Bring on the lawsuits. Had this been done by a man ranking his female partners, there would have been a whole lot more outrage. Maybe they should publically rank Ms. Owen's performance in her usually inebriated state - AFTER THE SETTLEMENTS.

I'm sure that her parents must be very proud of how she used her education - especially if they had to make a lot of sacrifices the way most parents do. I see cruelty in this and complete disregard for her partners. They had no idea that she was going to make a prank out of this and that fact makes me very angry. Maybe she can take her study and present it to brothels for her next career move.

I'm defending the situation because people are so easily biased against women who have a higher number of sex partners.

Therein lies YOUR bias....The situation shold never be defended whether a guy does or, in this case just in case you missed it, a woman does it...

I think the situation at Rutgers is different because of the intention to do harm. His roommate intended for him to be embarrassed and feel ashamed. And he and the friend's actions are absolutely wrong. If the girl at Duke had the intention to embarrass and shame these guys, why didn't she post the PPT herself?

I disagree the situation isn't really that much different at all except for the number of people. She did post it herself, she sent it to three friends, she intended to embarrass and shame these guys to only three friends so that she and her friends, and possibly grandkids, could get a good laugh out of her sex life, however though it clearly got out of hand.

Why do you fail to acknowledge that this is just a flip-side of what collegiate/teen/adult men have done to women multiple times and in many other ways?

That is because we are dealing with this particular case not others. In those cases in which those lists created by men about women come to light or become public knowledge the guy is basically condemned by everyone in society and then of course law enforcement gets involved and then there are charges that are then pressed against those men and then after that it goes to court and then after that the guy is basically found guilty.

I'm defending the situation because people are so easily biased against women who have a higher number of sex partners.

So your defending a situation that has nothing to do with number of sex partners because of a bias against women that have a high number of sex partners?

She was stupid in trusting her friends, and who hasn't trusted the wrong people?

Thats not good enough when we are dealing with a topic such as this, its one to screw up and trust the wrong person when it comes to counting on them to mow your lawn while your away but its entire different to screw up on trusting the wrong person(s) when dealing with someones sex life especially when that persons sex life topic deals with ridiculing some of their partners.

Also how is this too far away from what the couple did outing the gays? Sure it is not a video, but it does publicise exactly what most people want to remain private. Again, if a man would have put this info out, he would have been a womanizing villain, only wanting to brag about his exploits while all the women would have been victims of his madness. What a double standard!!!

I'm defending the situation because people are so easily biased against women who have a higher number of sex partners.

Therein lies YOUR bias....The situation shold never be defended whether a guy does or, in this case just in case you missed it, a woman does it...

You got me. In those words, yes, I would be biased. I should have articulated my thought better. To clarify, I'm not intending to take the woman's side just because it's in defense of women. This girl is being bashed as slut and whore for making a ppt using information gleened from her sexual experiences where plenty of guys have done the same exact thing but on a smaller scale. It's wrong, both ways. The difference is publicity over a girl doing it. Times have changed, we have no way of knowing that she won't be severely disciplined. If it were a guy, yes he would be considered a jerk, but he wouldn't have to face near the long-term demise of character the girl would because even though we're exposed to sex in the media more, we still operate on the idea that women should be more sexually conservative than men.

she intended to embarrass and shame these guys to only three friends so that she and her friends, and possibly grandkids, could get a good laugh out of her sex life, however though it clearly got out of hand.

I agree with this statement, it did get out of hand. However, I don't think it was on the same level of shame and embarrassment as Rutgers. Homosexuality is not as accepted in the mainstream as is premarital sex. It's possible she rationalized her actions because it's not uncommon for guys to rate girls and reading some comments here, more women are apparently rating guys.

That is because we are dealing with this particular case not others. In those cases in which those lists created by men about women come to light or become public knowledge the guy is basically condemned by everyone in society and then of course law enforcement gets involved and then there are charges that are then pressed against those men and then after that it goes to court and then after that the guy is basically found guilty.

As I said above, times are changing, so for all we know she could be severely disciplined. You're assuming she won't be, isn't that a bias?

So your defending a situation that has nothing to do with number of sex partners because of a bias against women that have a high number of sex partners?

I believe I answered this up top.

Thats not good enough when we are dealing with a topic such as this, its one to screw up and trust the wrong person when it comes to counting on them to mow your lawn while your away but its entire different to screw up on trusting the wrong person(s) when dealing with someones sex life especially when that persons sex life topic deals with ridiculing some of their partners.

Mainstream society seems to have become pretty blase and accepting of premarital sex considering how much of it we see on tv shows and in the news (sex itself, we still label men/women differently). Your comment takes away the responsibility the friends had in their choice to pass on the ppt. If she had the intention to embarrass and shame the guys she had sex with by constructing a statistical report, then her friends are also responsible for passing the same shaming and embarrassing information further on. I think there is also a difference between a 23 year old and 33 year old (random ages) trusting their friends. Life experience. You trust people more when you're younger. As a homeowner, you're in a different emotional and more mature mindset than a responsibility-free collegiate.

This girl is being bashed as slut and whore for making a ppt using information gleened from her sexual experiences where plenty of guys have done the same exact thing but on a smaller scale

She is being "bashed" (labeled) as a slut/whore because she had sex with at least 13 different partners (probably more) in her short college career. I’m pretty sure that is the definition of a slut.

Pookiebear, you seem like an otherwise intelligent woman, I don't understand your affinity to promote promiscuousness among our young adults. This tit-for-tat revolution you endorse degrades the human society as a whole. I totally support your passion to make things gender equal but please use your talents to empower women in meaningful roles in society instead of promoting future porn stars.

Darn!! If I had known I was going to be scored I would of banged her like a porn star!

I agree with this statement, it did get out of hand. However, I don't think it was on the same level of shame and embarrassment as Rutgers. Homosexuality is not as accepted in the mainstream as is premarital sex. It's possible she rationalized her actions because it's not uncommon for guys to rate girls and reading some comments here, more women are apparently rating guys.

It may not be on the same level but it is pretty damn close.

As I said above, times are changing, so for all we know she could be severely disciplined. You're assuming she won't be, isn't that a bias?

Your point? We are not dealing with bias when it comes to how many sex partners a woman can have.

I believe I answered this up top.

So I'm correct then in my analysis you are defending her in a situation that has really nothing to do with her number of sex partners because of a bias against women when it comes to how many sex partners they have had.

Your comment takes away the responsibility the friends had in their choice to pass on the ppt. If she had the intention to embarrass and shame the guys she had sex with by constructing a statistical report, then her friends are also responsible for passing the same shaming and embarrassing information further on.

Yes you know why? Because the majority of the responsibility rests with the author, not the friends. You keep trying to trying to make it seem like its 50/50 or that the friends hold the majority of responsibility, they don't. She holds the majority of the responsibility because she is the creator along with being the initial sender of the document and she sent it out on purpose, and currently right now we don't have any information that would suggest that when she sent that document out to her friends that she told them not to share it with anyone else. So do the friends have a responsibility in all of this yes they do but who holds the most responsibility and it is without question the author does.

I think there is also a difference between a 23 year old and 33 year old (random ages) trusting their friends. Life experience. You trust people more when you're younger. As a homeowner, you're in a different emotional and more mature mindset than a responsibility-free collegiate.

Again that is not good enough when we are dealing with a topic such as this, that is not a justifiable excuse for her misjudgment.

On another note, I think she is incredibly clever for coming up with this!

Would you say the same thing if a guy did a 3D presentation of college girls physical attributes and her ability to perform sex acts...and called out by name? He would be incredibly clever...or would he be someone who abused the trust of the girls and demeaned them publically?

If you think this would be just as clever for colleges to post this information about women, then I guess I question your values. If you only believe it to be clever if a female posts it about males, then I question your agenda. But whatever, maybe it is something that will catch on for everyone and you'll find your name posted somewhere with how good they THINK you are in bed. You'll probably find it quite clever!

Sounds like something the fella at the bottom of her chart might say, or atleast one of the bottom 6.

I should grade her, my name is on her list and she gave me a 1! What did she expect from me after I saw her naked? That's the last time I have sexual relations with an attention seeking coed!

I'm sorry gentlemen, but this slut's 15 minutes of fame are over. She will forever be known as the whore bag she is. Now let's move on please.

(unless you have a few more good jokes)

And what about the parents of the men involved. Their sons also are out discriminately having sex. Everyone should require these people have to have thorough STD checks before having anything to do with them.

diff, they (the guys) didn't post this for publicity or whatever her reasons. maybe she'll get a reality show, she can sleep with some guy and then rate him. mtv is probably already in talks with her.

I'm sorry differnet...They aren't the ones in question....SHE was the one who slept with them...We don't know how many they have slept with and if you can sit there with a straight cyber face and say they've slept with numerous women, then you need to give me those lottery numbers....

Rob and they didn't sleep with her. Give me a break. I hope God gives you daughters.

I am blessed with a daughter a@!$%#...And if she slept around and did this I'd tell her she was stupid and would need to take her medicine....

You are either a woman who will never admit what this woman did was wrong, or you are a guy trying to champion the cause of women...Either way you're ignorant to the facts of what happened....

And I hope God just blesses you....

You THINK your daughter isn't sleeping around. Hard to know. Like she's going to tell you.

Well since she's 4 I'd know dip$hit....

Why is it only women are sluts? Biased much?

I would say she is a slut, cause she was passed around the Duke lacross team. Also, there are other guys on campus....yet she chose these guys. Such winners. I'm sure the other guys on the team had no idea that she slept with other teammates, right?

I'm sure the other guys on the team had no idea that she slept with other teammates, right?

Exactly. They likely did know and they wanted in on some action too. I doubt she ripped their pants off. They are such "victims."

Pookiebear, this whore is in the dictionary next to slut.

can we talk about how the team is a bunch of sluts?! college and professional atheletes have all kinds of groupies that get passed around and talked about in locker rooms all the time. its okay if men get to sleep with anyone they want, but god forbid a woman wants to sleep around. its not healthy (physically, emotionally or mentally) for ANYONE to have sex with anyone they can, but at least stop with this stupid double standard. here's a news flash guys...women like sex too!! if you can't handle it, just pretend that we're all virgins that magically learned all our great sex techniques by praying and loving Jesus. get over yourselves!

She's a tramp and so are the guys who slept with her. I believe in equal opportunity. They all need to be doused with bleach. Ewwww. Men can be tramps just like women so this isn't even about her being a woman. While I find the chart and presentation to be extremely entertaining....I mean come on...seriously??? You had nothing better to do with your time??? I guess she got an education all right....just not the one her parents thought they were paying for. I know folks hook-up in college but you slept with most of the Lacrosse team??? Seriously??? I mean she couldn't have spread it out over some of the other sports teams???LOL Women (nor men) don't have to be virgins (that just isn't realistic for most folks in this day and age) but you don't have to pass it around like it's a two-for-one special either. Have some pride.

I'm with 'ya T. I'm sure her family is really proud of her.

And I can't help but think that she might not feel so good if the shoe were on the other foot and some guy was posting that she ranked at the bottom of his list because (take your pick), her butt was too big, thighs too heavy, boobs too small, vagina too.... well, you get the picture.

Mean spirited, I think.

pookie, come join us in the 21st century. women who sleep around are sluts. men who sleep around are players, or if you have another name, fine. the point is, she slept around, wrote about it, is probably hoping to gain from this, that makes her a slut.

I would have thought slut and player to belong in the 20th century, we're much more socially enlightened in the 21st century! :)

Why is it only women are sluts? Biased much?

No one is saying that women are only sluts, your free to call men that sleep around as sluts all you want to. The bias here is that a lot of women are not willing to shame men that sleep around.

What do you call a man who sleeps with 13 women? Oh right, it's perfectly acceptable to have practice for his wedding night.

I would hardly call a woman a whore for sleeping with 13 men over a four or more year period. That equals out to be around 3 partners per year. If the girl is not married, which she is not, she can sleep with as many guys as she wants. There is nothing wrong with liking sex as long as the individuals are being safe and are not spreading deseases. Seeing how she actually graduated from a good college, and seems somewhat smart and does not appear to have gotten knocked up during her encounters with these various partners, I say it is a far stretch to call her a whore.

seriously Brian, 13 men over 4 years... give me a break. maybe you would be on the bottom of that list...

She is no more of a whore than any guy out there who is banging anything he can. I admire her ability BUT she was very stupid if she sent this via email to people and did not expect it to get out there.

Brian-2479153, You know the difference between a whore and a slut? A whore gives it to everybody, a slut gives it to everybody but you.

Brian, I AGREE

She is a Whore !!!!! and Yes, I am a Chick ....

and sure to the rest of YOU *ManWhores, do exist*, but this TOPIC is about a FemaleWhore . Everyone who is going off Topic *using the Excuse WELL MEN DO IT* ---- We are Not talking about something a Man Did....

She is not a whore guys, the only time she would be whore is if someone paid her to have sex with them. Now slut you could call her a slut as well if you wanted to.

What do you call a man who sleeps with 13 women?

I call them ManWhores or ManSluts, what do you call them?

Jeffreey.....Why are you arguing semantics?? A whore isn't necessarily a woman who gets paid for it...

So if that's your definition why would you call the guys "manwhores"? Did they get paid??

The guys are just as capable of keeping their pants on too.

Amen.

Enough pookiebear...Stop with the "well the men could have" bullcrap every time someone says something negative about this girl.....

Allow people to discuss what SHE did wrong, which is what this article is about...She screwed up and even admitted it, so really it isn't about the guys who she slept with...What did they do wrong in this instance except maybe the ones on the lower end of her spectrum....

They aren't even reasonably discussing what she did wrong! They rattle off about what a skank they think she is without any supporting rational argument! I never said it was ok for these guys to be exposed like this, and no one seems to consider the double standard of this issue.

If a guy had done this, he would be expelled from the school. National media would label the man as some sort of predator who bedded women soley for the purpose of making this power point. Women's groups would be calling for every college in the nation to require sensativity training for all in-coming freshman males and a follow up course every year. There is your double-standard, pookiebear.

You must come from the school where the result of sex is always because a woman is promiscuous. Please, think outside the box.

Guys do this. They just don't document it as well....

pookie, pookie, pookie...thinking outside the box? You seem entrenched in the male stereotypes of the 50's and 60's. You must watch Mad Man and just scream at the TV. Men, women, we all get promiscuous at times. Guys might banter about it, but when they do, they are chastized, belittled and told how insensative and wrong they are. Women's groups go on national TV grousing about how its wrong, but when one of them do the same thing they denounce, its ok? Women have to stop demanding having it both ways. Nothing makes a group look weaker than demanding a double-standard.

I agree, women cannot have it both ways. But men cannot have it both ways either. I've never watched Mad Men and probably never will, but if men are being chastised, belittled, and declared insensitive, it's only in the public forum or urban areas where people pride themselves on being "enlightened."

Since when do men get it both ways? This country has been on a "pro-anything anti-male" movement since the 70's. Please tell me, in what ways, have men had it both ways in the past 15-20 years?

Enlightenment from urban areas spreads to rural areas quickly these days. Its called the internet. Thats what this poor, innocent little girl used to spead this power point show. And she's being hailed an internet sensation. If it were a man, he would be in custody and some NOW attorney would be lining up a team to go after any future earnings he would make on this, like book, tv or movie deals, and demand they be given to the innocent victimes, ie: the women that were rated. They would be victims. Shoe is ont he other foot here...she's a sensation and the men are just lucky they got some. This reeks of the same double standards women have fought against for decades. Apparently its ok if its not happening to them.

I never said she was innocent. I am speculating that it was never her intention for this to be in the public. But now it is and yes she's facing consequences for her choices. I am defending that she is being bashed as overly sexually promiscuous and inadvertently naming names when there are plenty of guys out there doing the same thing and being accepted (in some circles, praised) for it.

I'm wondering what world you live in if you think men have been so hated since the 70s. Perhaps you mean we have been less apt to turning a blind eye to poor male behaviors since the 70s?

Men have it both ways domestically and professionally. Men are able to be SAHD's without facing bias when they go back to work. They are admired for their sacrifice and perceived as being such an involved dad (which is a good thing, no doubt!). Women are not admired anymore for being SAHM's, and we do face bias when we go back to work (how many years since we worked means supposedly our skills are poor). Men take paternity leave and it's so adorable that they want to take care of their new/expanded family, and women are so lazy when they take maternity leave and their co-workers are forced to pick up their slack. Women are expected to be career-driven and haul our own weight, but we have to find clever and manipulative ways in which we can advance our career without being perceived as a ball-breaker or slut and without ostracizing ourselves from other female co-workers. Men have to find new ways to adjust to the rules about gender in the workplace, but it is still easier for them to advance their career and until older generations have completely phased out, many of the old rules and assumptions still apply. Many things are changing to be in a man's favor, such as custody of children and acceptance to be a more involved dad. However, issues involving sex has yet to go through such a transformation.

You asked for examples and I gave them to you. Let's keep to the topic at hand.

The guys are just as capable of keeping their pants on too.

Yes but in this case there is so far no evidence that the guys she had sex with had as many partners as her. Heck some of the guys that were horrible in bed probably were virgins.

"Heck some of the guys that were horrible in bed probably were virgins." I doubt that. Go read all 46 slides then see what you think.

pookiebear...ok, fine. Sticking to the topic at hand, as requested...

This girl intentionally named names and posted pictures. She is the one who sent out the e-mail. Did the e-mail explicitly say not to forward? No idea. Is she totally in the wrong for doing this? Absolutely. She made it. She sent it out into the electronic world. Is she stupid? Yes. Is she responsible? Yes. Is she going to be held accountable? No. That is the double-standard. A man doing the exact same thing and telling the exact same "I didn't mean for this to happen" story, well lets just say you would be on this thread saying so what, you're an adult, pay for your crimes. You are not saying this now because its a woman. You are justifying it by saying men have done it before. Should a man be let off the hook for strapping his kids in the back seat of the car, putting it in nuetral and waching it slowly go under water? I mean, more than one woman has done this before. They got in trouble, much like many men have for sexually harrassing women. But because its reversed, its ok?

"Heck some of the guys that were horrible in bed probably were virgins." I doubt that. Go read all 46 slides then see what you think.

Rather not, would rather give them an excuse for why they were rated so poorly so they can have at least some dignity from this whole thing.

I don't think I ever said it was ok for her to do this because men do it, you are misconstruing my words and I'm starting to feel like a broken record repeating the same thing multiple times. Why are people bashing her and calling her names when in contrast men don't get bashed and called names when they do very basically the same thing (just not in ppt)? I would think that is the double standard because we have yet to learn if she is/isn't going to held accountable. You're assuming she won't. I agree with many of your points in that it was not ok for her to do this and she needs to face responsibility, but we don't know if she did or did not intend for it to go past the few friends she initially sent it to. Yes it's an all around dumb thing she did, but she could have assumed her friends would be discreet. I think if she wanted it out in public, she would have put it there herself.

Why are people bashing her and calling her names when in contrast men don't get bashed and called names when they do very basically the same thing (just not in ppt)?

Because men don't include names nor photographs nor create a ppt nor go into such drastic detail either. All men do is say they had sex with this really hot red hair or blonde haired chick. Basically the girl has complete anonymity in those conversations, the other reason for the double standard is because guys don't make them public they keep them private because when those lists go public the men get railed a hell of a lot worse then women do in the public eye. If you yourself knew of lists pookie that guys made and you didn't out them then shame on you for perpetuating the double standard.

"I am defending that she is being bashed as overly sexually promiscuous and inadvertently naming names when there are plenty of guys out there doing the same thing and being accepted (in some circles, praised) for it."

Pookiebear...you sound like it's something that's being done TO women. Well, let me help explain something. When a man sleeps with a lot of women, those who know him, his FRIENDS, give him high fives and label him a stud. When women sleep with a lot of men, those who know her, her FRIENDS label her a slut, NOT the men. So if you have trouble with double-standards, you have to go to the source. If a woman sees a guy sleeping with everything that moves, he is a pig, one to stay away from. If a guy sees a woman sleeping around with everything that moves, he'll still go out with her. So WHO is defining whom? Women label men as pigs and women as sluts if they sleep around. MEN label men as studs and women as fun if they sleep around. If there is a double-standard, it would be between how men label other men, and women label other women. So telling a man there is a double-standard is fairly pointless. What can THEY do about it?

A visual example: A group of five men sitting in a bar when suddenly in through the door comes a handsome stud. What do they do? That's right, continue talking, probably ignoring a stranger that came in. Now, a group of five women sitting in a bar when suddenly in through the door comes a knock-out bombshell. What do they do? That's right, start talking about her...maybe her hair isn't quite right, maybe her shoes don't match her outfit, maybe even call her a slut. It happens ALL the time. So who do we blame for that? Your comments may be accurate, but it doesn't appear you understand the source.

Women are much more judgmental of other women (and men) than men are. This doesn't mean everyone falls into either generalization, but if you want change, it has to start with those instigate the definitions.

If women stop looking at other women who are having sex as sluts, I'm pretty sure men would be happy as well. Once the stigma is gone, there will be a lot more sex to go around. Men have much to gain with the acceptance of women sleeping around, UNLESS she is sleeping around on HIM when she is in a relationship with him, then she'll still be a slut...JUST like a guy sleeping around on any woman who he is in a relationship with is still a pig.

Rwraith1 - Shut up!

Except for bringing up JJ and AS he is correct. If this had been a guy reporting on a bunch of girls the feminists would be all over it.

Maybe if it was reported in such a public way. If it was kept quiet on campus, it would be "boys will be boys."

But I do agree that the double standard needs to end.

This girl, without question, is a slut. Thirteen partners in a lifetime is astonishing, vile, and risky, but thirteen in college? She's not very easy on the eyes either, thus the alcohol involved.

What a pig.

I agree with OTP. If a dude had done the same thing, and I don't mean sleep with a bunch of women, I mean publish a report of this nature and that got spread to many thousands and make a thesis on it, he would be a) sitting in prison or out on bail, b) up to his ears in lawsuits, or more likely, c) a & b .

And Kim, 13 Partners in a lifetime isn't anything close to astonishing or vile. You must of lived a very sheltered life to think such a thing.

The world needs more chicks like this. :) I know, I'm vile aren't I.

YOu all keep saying, "if a man did this he'd be in jail" or expelled or villified in some way. That is such bull. These were consensual encounters and one of the parties to the encounters "kissed and told". She did it in a funny, elaborate presentation for the sake of humor. Whether you find that tasteless or not isn't the point. She didn't do anything illegal. She also sent it to 3 friends. Email etiquette is that you don't forward private emails to others. So, her friends violated her confidences. However, what they did wasn't illegal either. If she had sat in a room with these three friends and told them everything that was in the powerpoint, would you think it was wrong? It's the same damn thing. Unfortunately, she learned the hard way that putting something down in writing might not be too smart.

She didn't put sexual images of them online via spycams, she didn't invade their privacy, she didn't rape them. Logically, how some of you go from point A to Point B is frightening.

She didn't do anything illegal.

Your right she didn't do anything illegal but if a guy did they would have found a way to make the law stick against him. So no it isn't bull to say that if a guy did it he would have law enforcement involved to some degree or have been expelled from a school or what ever.

But she does face the possibility of defamation.

12.7 THANK YOU! You said this so much better than what I've explained multiple times. Maybe I need to lay off the coffee. :)

@ConstitutionalRights, you must be a woman, or not has lived as a man to actually believe what you just wrote.

There is no way a man could have done what this woman did and not gotten away with being arrested, sued, or both.

I don't actually think what she did was distasteful or anything of the sort. I find it humorous. And, hurray for her for being sexually free/open and not giving a crap what prudes and Christians think about it.

12.7 THANK YOU! You said this so much better than what I've explained multiple times. Maybe I need to lay off the coffee. :)

The reason why CR said it so much better is because in all your posts you were dealing with a different point, so no CR didn't say what you been trying to explain because what CR said was completely different point then what your point is.

she didn't invade their privacy

I disagree, I believe she did. You can't claim her friends violated her privacy by violating email etiquette by forwarding private emails and then claim this young woman didn't violate these mens privacy by talking about the sex she had with them(naming names and showing photographs) to other people even if those other people she was talking to was supposedly a private conversation.

"These were consensual encounters and one of the parties to the encounters "kissed and told". She did it in a funny, elaborate presentation for the sake of humor."

I've got to know if you think it would be funny if a guy did an elaborate presentation, listing the names, the breast sizes, the nipple size (pancake vs. dime), tightness, and how she orgasms. I mean, if he did it in a funny, elaborate presentation...for the sake of humor of course, would you find him to be a victim of the media when it is reported? How about when he faces charges of date rape for sleeping with women who were inebriated? He just got what was coming to him for being such a jerk, right?

She faces nothing but the embarrassment, the same thing faced by the "victims" who had no choice about having their names and subjective ratings included. If it were reversed, I'd be equally repulsed at the complete demeaning behavior, wouldn't you?

Great points.

This woman is the same age I was when I was in charge of a squad of young men and women in the Army. I wasn't much older than her when I made Staff Sergeant. We are not talking about a kid here, just stupidity.

Pookie..... True enough, sleeping with that many people in such a short period of time makes anyone a "slut" in my book regardless of gender. But, since there is no info about how many girls these guys slept with, then there is no basis for saying whether or not they are "sluts".

So, rather than determining that the guys are "sluts" as well without any data to back that statement up, people are commenting on the actions of this girl because THAT'S WHO THIS F'ING STORY IS ABOUT!

AGREED! Is she my role model? NO. Do I release my number, names, and experiences? NO. Would I have done this? NO. Did she mean for it get out? NO. Is it funny and true and amazing? YES. Is she embarrased? Of course.

Everyone is taking this way too seriously. She's not a slut, she's a college girl having a good time. God knows most college girls are doing the same thing just as I had when I was in college...just not as many or quite as publicly. You are not GOD, do not judge her so quickly and I do not think this quite that important of a piece to be on the Today Show.....

Those poor guys....they are just as responsonsible. Just because you have sex doesn't mean it's going to be kept a secret and I love the comment about the releasing of sex tapes without consent. That is totally above and beyond inappropriate.

POOKIE BEAR!

"What I think is most amusing is all the commenting men up in arms about "if this were turned around and it was a man with a bunch of girls," when they fail to grasp the magnitude of the double standard. Collegiate and teen boys have been doing this to girls for AGES and typically get just a slap on the wrist for their actions."

Goodness you sound somewhat intellligent just think about your statement. Why do guys only get a slap on the wrist when the tables are turned? Hmm I know because WE ARE MEN AND WE GET AWAY WITH EVERYTHING! NOPE that is what you think, but the reason why a guy BRAGGING to all his friends doesn't get in trouble is because he is verbally communicating his sexual activities with friends. We are not stupid enough to make a Effing sex chart and send it to friends.

It is true if a guy sent and email of his sexual encounters to friends and it exploded, he would be in jail and kicked out of school PERIOD! Double standard is alive and well between men and women. I believe that modern man has grown to be accustomed to this. We are a "laid back" sex that will not raise hell over this, but you can not deny things are very different.

Now go get your vegan lunch at panera bread and have a non fat caramel moca on me.

pookie

collegiate and teen boys have been doing this for ages? so girls never talk to their friends about their experiences. sex in the city lies! it is all watercress sandwiches and lemonade when the girls get together? I had a group of female friends in college that called one guy "nick the nudger" because of his small "stature". the difference is they didn't put it out on the internet for the world to see, which is the point.

I agree this is funny. However, it definitely does make her look like a whore. It has nothing to do with double standards. A guy would be a dog/man-whore if he did this. And it would be just as funny (although I could see a guy getting into legal trouble for it). As far as pressing charges on those 16 year olds goes, get over it. You should have rated them right back to their face and then just walked away. People are far too sensitive nowadays. Pookiebear, you just sound like another outspoken feminist.

Sex in the city does lie. Because it's a fictionalized fantasy of what women wish they could get away with. I would say that there is an incorrect notion floating around out there that women are further empowered by having more sex partners. Women who have a high number of sex partners and rate them to each other is still an exception in comparison to how most women behave. You're right, the point is that this did get out (again, was that even her intention) and it was wrong. It is wrong however, to blame her for all the sex.

I don't believe men get away with everything at all, but they do benefit by being perceived as "being a normal guy" when it comes to sexual promiscuity. Maybe guys don't make charts, but I highly doubt that they only verbally communicate their sex experiences and who their partners were.

I doubt that if I'm trying to think objectively it means I'm an outspoken feminist. What world do you live in if this is not considered a double standard?

Not a double standard, basic mammal nature has the male to procreate and the female to birth, and we're all still mammals and from this story seems like we are more animal than human when it comes to sex. Not saying it's right, but that's the way it is. Another point to make is that a man can have sex with as many women (hopefully safely) and there will be no sign in changes of physical features, women on the other hand lose a sense of freshness hence why some may say "she's loose". This is the way it is and how society conveys it to be. I'm interested in knowing the standardized number that makes a male a pimp or a man-whore and a woman a freak or a whore that the moral authority set in place to rate and rank human mammals.

You are kidding, right? Please tell me you aren't serious. That's just assinine. She loses her "freshness" and becomes "loose". I think you have delusions of grandeur.

BUT how many times have we heard of guys rating girls, or having bets on who can sleep with the most girls and harrasment cases never came out of those instances.

The reason why nothing came out of those instances is because those instances were able to stay private and not become public and you allowed it to stay private because you didn't say anything to anyone in authority position when you heard or saw a list of guys rating girls. Making a bet about seeing if someone can do something like have this much sex in this amount of time is the not equivalent of making a list of people you have had sex with and then rating them and part of the reason why the bet is not the same is because the actions themselves haven't taken place yet or at all for that matter. If I make bet with you that I can jump higher than you doesn't mean we have jumped nor does it mean we are going to jump, it gives an incentive but the actual action of jumping hasn't taken place yet. That is the difference between making a bet and creating a list.

"Collegiate and teen boys have been doing this to girls for AGES and typically get just a slap on the wrist for their actions."

OK, pookie, I call you out on this. Since guys have been doing this for AGES, please site a story in which a guy lists the names of girls along with rating their sexual acts, and the names of the girls are spread across the country. Then show me the punishment he got for it...hopefully not more than the punishment she got for it...wait, I'm sorry, what was her punishment again? Was there even a slap on the wrist? I think she gets a book deal and appears on talk shows. If a guy did it, let's see...right, you come up with your own stories.

Anyway, since guys have been publishing girls names along with their sex acts without their knowledge, and publicly for ages, I'm sure you'll be able to find at least ten stories or so where the guy got less of a punishment that this woman (again, what was her punishment)?

"I don't believe men get away with everything at all, but they do benefit by being perceived as "being a normal guy" when it comes to sexual promiscuity."

pookie, you miss the point...you state things from a guy to guy level. Women don't think too much of a guy who has sexual promiscuity...he's a pig. WOMEN are the ones who label other women as sluts. Guys sleep with them. Who needs to change?

"Is it funny and true and amazing? YES."

If you haven't seen Social Network...please do. Then tell me why the girl's eyes well up with tears when something like this (on a MUCH smaller scale) happens to her. Everyone in the audience is laughing hysterically...no wait, I was with HUMANS...there was silence and an utter disbelief that one would be so cruel. Betrayal, intentionally hurting others, demeaning behavior...you label it funny and amazing. Not sure your thinking is too clear on this one. Perhaps all we've done is created a society of chauvinistic women who view receiving any pain at all to be absolutely wrong, going so far as to assign responsibility for even an angry look, but apparently giving it out in any form is funny and amazing.

Here pookie/Aurora...here's one you can cheer about and tell the women involved they should be thankful to the boys for helping them to become better lovers. It appears the exact same thing happened in opposite at Landon a few months back...fun read really. Interesting, imaginative, funny, well-written...I just don't understand why people would be upset. (EXTREME sarcasm).

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/09/opinion/09dowd.html?_r=1

Oh, and here's the last line of the article calling for an overhaul...I mean in case you don't want to click on the link. THIS is how the media treats men who do this (full and exaggerated responsibility about the equality of ALL women), but I haven't seen anything like this for Karen. She gets a free pass...So let me be the first to say, "Young women everywhere must be taught, beyond platitudes, that young men are not prey." Is there even an educational program out there that teaches civility toward men as part of the program?

“Landon has an extensive ethics and character education program which includes as its key tenets respect and honesty. Civility toward women is definitely part of that education program.”

Time for a curriculum overhaul. Young men everywhere must be taught, beyond platitudes, that young women are not prey.

Telling a number is never appealing, male or female.

"Hey guys look who is applying for a job here!" (Karen Owen's name in a job application) Who will hire her? A feminist? Yes, a man looking for a sex partner at the office? Yes. All the rest will think it twice.

I would not have to think twice. Did you see her. Heck yeah she is hired.

yep, with strippers earning more than teachers or nurses of course we women see how we are valued in this world. and unless you can honestly say you have never looked at porn, been to a strip club, or objectifed a woman, you can thank yourself for how women feel they are valued in this world. SirTrollington, YOUR daughters are paying attention.

My daughters will remain locked in the basement until they are 30.

Actually there are virgins in college. She will get offers to do what? Have sex with men for money?

Not everyone in the world is a whore, just you and your mother.

Of the fact that she is a confident woman who owns her sexuality? I would be proud of that, but chastise her for releasing the names of her partners.

I agree with every thing you said especially with the double standard. She's just wrong sending it to friends.....over the internet. Even I'm cautious to send something personal online even if I have all the protection/privacy settings in the world. Nothing is private on the Internet.

wow, insatiable? 13 guys over 4 years? what does your sex life look like?

Sorry, but in my day it was stressed that no matter what they did good boys and girls still didn't talk about it (unless of course keeping quiet was harmful). I stress that to my kids today. Doing is one thing and talking about is another. If you do something dumb don't compound it by advertising it. Apparently, the concept of privacy is dead today....

Those who can - do. Those who cannot - talk.

Hey my3cats, really...just because it was 13 doesn't mean it was only once each. Try staying on point and not disecting every comment. According to your screen name, the only p*ssy you are playing with is the kind that has four legs.

So are you saying that if I talk about driving a car, I can't?

How about reading a book, or eating, or sleeping or breathing, or watching TV, or exercising, or eating or brushing my teeth, or tying my shoes or doing my laundry, or vacuuming the carpet, or mailing a letter, or reading a clock or talking on the phone or ...

You get my point, don't you?

Ken, what does it matter if she slept with each guy 50 times? are you saying you would consider a woman a slut if she slept with 2 guys 1,000 times each? talk about staying on topic!! and attempting to insult me over a screen name...creative. i'm sure no one in the history of the internet has ever thought to make a sexual reference if there is the word "cat" contained within a screen name. be proud, i've never heard that one before.

My3 I did not call her a slut. I said she was insaitable; not satiable; incapable of being satisfied or appeased: insatiable hunger for knowledge. Your comment was so good that you had to modify it, brilliant!! If you are going to comment on my comment and insult me about something you know nothing about like my sex life, what do you expect, when you obviously live for your p*ssy...cats that is.