I agree. This was not a destructive act. What is gained by denying him and his date a chance to go to prom?I saw this young man on the Today show. He seems articulate, sweet and sensible. He wanted his invitation to have an impact. I am sure he never bargained for this. Yes, people, let common sense and humor prevail.

Kudos to you! Well thought it out w/out romance, no vandalism, don't see that too much these days! Just all good intentions.

Oh pleeeeeease. I can't think of anyone or anything less important than 3 movie "stars" left standing out in the sun.

I agree, additionally, wasn't he already given a 1 day suspension? Isn't that double jeopardy? All the Child Psychology books teach that children should not be given "double" punishments. At an age when it is hard enough to ask someone to a prom for fear they will say no this young man showed where his heart was and was creative. Is that what the headmaster was afraid of unleashing creativity in his students?

Chris-3462454 You are right on. That is what the schools are now doing. Everyone should be the same and no one should show that they have any creativity or are more intelligent than others. If you do, then you are going to be punished. I truly believe the school officials are afraid the students will turn out to be smarter than they are and you know how fear messes up the mind.

It never ceases to amaze me at how stupid school administrators can be. Educated fools.

THIS is what teachers who can't be fired provide. A misery for youth.

I swear, whoever gave this kid a suspension should be fired and their career destroyed. Oh, I'm sorry, does that punishment not fit the crime? Well, that person will SURE LEARN THEIR LESSON!

Idiot suspension. Fund the kids prom bill with money from that person's retirement account as well.

I was a High School Track Coach for several years; did anyone notice Sonali was wearing a "Shelton Track" jacket? These young kids are VERY shy when it comes to asking another to Prom; I watched them look for creative ways to accomplish this, and I observed many adorable actions that literally touched my heart. This is one such, very creative, method. Someone is taking their Authority way too seriously! The mere quantity of these responses, along with such passionate exposure on 'THE TODAY SHOW' is showing this particular "Educator" to be a complete FOOL. Perhaps in the WRONG position? Hope Shelton's Board Supervisor is listening.

Everyone at this school should boycott the prom this year. That would send a powerful message about overracting.

AG999

Everyone at this school should boycott the prom this year. That would send a powerful message about overracting.

Have the prom somewhere else kids and have fun. I'd even donate some cash for this couples limo.

When I was in a Military Special Training Unit, if one person got punishment, everyone else, immediately, accepted the same punishment. The Senior Class should NOT go to the Prom, and schedule their own event at a donated facility, to Hell with Fascism

For those of you who do not have children in the school system, count your blessings. Common sense and common decency have gone out the window. I just can't wait for the day that both of my children receive their diplomas so I can breath again. School isn't what it used to be; no wonder most children hate going.

I agree that the student should not be allowed to attend. He defaced and vandalized (albeit temporarily) school property, and if he injured himself, it's quite likely that his parents would want to sue the school. What this 'harmless' act led to his death? Our jails are filled with too many children and young adults who werent told 'NO' enough in their young lives. Kids today feel they are entitled to do anything they want with few if any consequences especially if it involves an expression of their 'creativity' (oh give me a friggin break). The punishment may seem 'harsh' to other such spoiled brats (sorry for the name calling) but I think it may be a deterent to others who might look to do the same thing.

If they let it slide then it's sets a precedent.

Ah yes, the old "slippery slope" argument. Yeah, the next kid will set fire to the building.

We need zero tolerance for anything that isn't explicitly permitted. It removes any requirement for exercise of judgment.

If you don't issue reckless driving ticket for everyone driving one mile over the speed limit it sets a precident.

This is a good kid. A straight-A student. Did he violate school policy? Probably so. Should he receive some sort of punishment? Maybe a day of detention or something. But to ban him from the prom just seems silly, and the school is no doubt getting a well deserved spanking from the public and the media over their obvious over-reaction to his little stunt.

Somewhere along the line, we STOPPED punishing students for being disrespectful to teachers, swearing in class, and in general for displaying rude behavior. Then we go the other way with things like this on kids who are, by all accounts, good kids. Somewhere along the line, common sense became uncommon and schools started ignoring big problems to focus on trivial matters like this.

I suspect he will be at the prom and become a celebrity, while the school administrators will wish they'd never have over reacted in the first place. Let kids be kids. This was pretty harmless!

sfs take a deep breath, relax, and ponder whether or not 'policy' can be embarrassing. 'policy' in this case is just an excuse for someone to impose their will on others, and for certain others to point at it as a means of excusing themselves from having to think I hope such msgs become a fad, like hula hoops or ornately shaved heads. such enforcement does not instill much faith in the lawn order. pure buffoonery

Iswingly, what a sour bitter person you are.

When I was in school the punishment fit the crime. Once I had felt the sting of the teacher's paddle I didn't want to feel it again. Now if my son burps in class I get a note from the school. One kid in my son's class got in trouble for drawing a gun during art class. The school has a zero tolerance policy on guns, apparently even drawings of guns. How ridiculous we have become. The kid is a good student and will never have the opportunity to attend a prom. It's not like he set the school on fire. All of you loons who think he shouldn't go didn't get asked to the prom when you were in school. So get over your bitterness!!!

What needs to be left out of the debate is that he is a "Good kid, and straight A student". Only the facts of what happened should matter. He did what he did got suspended for it, but not allowing him to go to his prom is as Bruce-308647 pointed out going to make him a celebrity of sorts, and cause other students to protest, making this a larger issue than it should be.

Iswingly:

I see that we sadly agree with each other. It's kind of warped that we completely agree that the school's ruling, but our country existed in a warped world where that kind of attitude is unfortunately required.

With the support of parents, all the prom goers should attempt to find another venue for the prom, and hold it there. The school officials, and I am using the term loosely, have no reason to keep any student from attending the dance, unless they have broken the law or done something so heinous that it would create a menace if they were allowed to attend. I think this kid was pretty clever.

Maureen:

The issue with moving the location of the dance is that it is still considered to be a "school function". As such, a location switch really won't change change anything in the big scheme of things since the school will still have jurisdiction.

Understanding how school districts became the overly cautious borderline dictatorships that exist today is different than being bitter. Don't be mad at me because I actually see teh big picture. Perhaps I simply benefit from the fact that my career is the legal system and I have a deeper comprehension of what's at play here but I'm not bitter whatsoever.

Is what he did harmless? Essentially yes. Do I think the Administration was heavy handed? Essentially yes. Do I think he SHOULD have to suffer such a stiff penalty based on common sense logic? Essentially no. Do I understand why the school district has to be this heavy handed in spite of common sense logic? Yes.

In this day and age it's not just a question of right, wrong and does the punishment fit the crime. There are far reaching economic questions that are encompass more than just this one kid and his creative prom invite in a vacuum. It's a sad reality but it's still reality. And all the teeth gnashing about common sense won't change that.

Really, you think that is a fair comparison to what this kid did? I am a mother of 4 kids. I have seen the schools overreact so many times, it is absolutely ridiculous. Yes, he went onto what appears to be an open campus that is public property. Trespassing, possibly, but public property, nonetheless. Dangerous, yes, and he has even admitted it publicly. Suspended for his actions seems a bit drastic as I think the school could have done something a bit more fitting and helpful to their cause and fitting with his record. You all are calling for his head and from what appears to be a stealth record should not call for such drastic measures.

As far as what people are calling "tagging" and "defacing", no such thing occurred. It was no less than what happens everyday when the cheerleaders and clubs hang posters and then remove later. Nothing damaged the grounds and I find it amazing that the school talked of how dangerous this was, yet required him to climb back up and remove? Seems it was not that dangerous after all. I think they were just looking, like most schools these days, to bully good kids because they want to set an example and are so misguided when they do so.

He is clearly apologetic for his actions but his intent was not harmful and the school should be taking that into account. Intent is most always taken into account when consideration of breaking the law, but apparently not by this school administration. They just want to bully this kid and not really have the punishment fit the crime. Typical of today's schools. And, yes, I can say this with experience. It is a sad state of affairs for where our schools are going for they claim to have a zero tolerance policy for bullying, but the administrators are the ones doing the bullying and getting away it!

Anyone notice that he was told it was "trespassing and posed a safety risk", yet it wasn't a safety risk when he cleaned it up on Sunday night. Hmmm?

The kid learned his first lesson in life: That life isn't fair and that nobody cares about sincerity and creativity. He should be grateful he was able to learn this lesson early in life instead of later on.

It wasn't a safety risk when he cleaned up because it was school sanctioned and supervised.

And again the punishment has to be enough to actually deter kids from doing it. If at the end of the day he gets simple detention walks out of there with a smile on his face and thinking, "it was totally worth it". Then you might as well not punish him. What do you suggest they do to make sure he regrets it and other kids won't follow his lead?

That is what the school district must achieve in order to be able to walk into court and have a frivolous case dismissed with prejudice. The only other thing I can think of is pressing charges and/or a lengthy suspension. And while Prom is one of those milestone coming of age events, what do you think is the more harsh punishment? Having to miss prom or basically forcing the kid to explain to college admissions boards why he has a criminal record/ serious suspension on his permanent record?

And let's be real. Prom sucks. The actual prom that is. He can still get dressed up, rent a limo, take his girl friend out to dinner, get pictures taken, go dancing somewhere and then go to the after party which is the real fun of prom in the first place. Dancing around in front of your teachers with a terrible DJ/band is not what I tend to think about when I reminisce on my prom night.

Since he did break the rules, I am fine with the in school suspension and maybe even some service to the school to pay for the staff who had to take the letters down. But as he meant no harm or malice and did no damage-I say let him go to prom. It was a not well thought out, yet sweet way for a boy to ask a girl to prom. This should be our biggest issue with teens today!

Who IS allowed to prom? Are kids who have bullied other kids in the past allowed to go? Are kids who are disrespectful to their teachers allowed to go? Are kids who have written on bathroom walls (do kids still do that?) allowed to go? This did not hurt anyone and his intentions were to do nothing more than to make a girl he liked feel special. Give him a break.

"It wasn't a safety risk when he cleaned up because it was school sanctioned and supervised."

Written like a good control freak! Because I say it is OK, it is OK, because I DID NOT say it was OK, it was wrong. Supervised or not, the actions carried the very same level of personal risk. It is a double standard under any point of view outside the narrow little mind of Iswingly.

ghostcoon:

Actually not all of us in this 5% margin have gotten our posts collapsed. But yeah, it's a messed up world. The school made a wrong call in the big scheme of people and life, but the right call for our society since it's the only way to legally protect themselves from being bankrupted in lawsuits.

iswingly,

It wasn't a safety risk when he cleaned up because it was school sanctioned and supervised

You're a bit confused. It was not trespassing "when he cleaned up because it was school sanctioned and supervised."

It takes the same amount of energy, resources (ladders, friends, etc), time, and (yes) risk to take down the letters that it did to put them up.

I'm not saying he shouldn't be discipline but the schools reaction doesn't fit the "crime."

[i]Written like a good control freak! Because I say it is OK, it is OK, because I DID NOT say it was OK, it was wrong. Supervised or not, the actions carried the very same level of personal risk. It is a double standard under any point of view outside the narrow little mind of Iswingly. [/i]

Laughable. It has nothing to do with being a control freak. It has to do with understanding the concept safety in a legal context. You're rationalizing. I'm just telling you the reality of the situation. For instance there is a reason why students aren't allowed to use shop equipment or mix chemicals, without their teacher's present. They may be engaging the same actions technically, and have some of the same risks but having an adult supervising and ensuring that they are using proper equipment and proper methodology minimizes the risk inherently and definitely legally.

Keep spinning if you want but projecting and hurling insults at me all you want but I can almost guarantee that I'm more openminded and carefree than the majority of people in this country. I just understand the legal and financial implications of this whole thing and am not allowing it the sentiment cloud my judgment.

If they let it slide then it's sets a precedent. And the next time someone comes along and does the same thing only the message is not so "cute" then they have to give out the same punishment because the precedent has been set with this guy. People need to remember "cute" is subjective. And the school cannot afford to put itself in the messy situation of making subjective judgments because it opens up the possibility of civil suits based on race, religion, etc. etc.

That is ridiculous. There is a huge difference between a kid using his chosen medium to ask for a date in a non-offensive manner and someone else using the same medium to insult or harass, and no kid should be this extensively punished for this. The girl was not offended and he didn't insult anyone. They didn't let it slide, and no one is suggesting they should have, but the punishment was excessive; make the kid clean it up, give him detention or a few days picking up trash on school grounds.

And in case you haven't noticed, the kids and parents most likely to scream racism and discrimination are now the LEAST likely to be punished for that exact reason... in most schools now the priority is avoiding lawsuits, not education.

Yeah, this sucks -- but rules are rules and the school must enforce them fairly for all students. One "exception," and suddenly you'd see all the truants and bad eggs clamoring for their prom bannings to be overturned as well.

I was banned from attending my senior prom back in the day. A teacher overheard me calling another student (not to her face) a "b**ch" because she was bragging about getting into Princeton on a 2.0 GPA. I was reported to the Dean of Students and, because my "malicious, threatening words" violated the conduct code, I was barred from attending any Senior events. (Catholic school!) In all honesty, it was better than the alternative punishment -- stand in front of the review board and facing expulsion.

The thing is, it sucked at the time, but did not going to my prom affect the rest of my life? Not at all. I hung out with my friends that night afterward and heard it was pretty lame anyway. I still got to graduate, I still was able to attend a Top 20 ranked university, I have a great job and I'm off to grad school in the fall.

Proms are cool and all, but not attending won't "ruin" this kid's high school experience as many here have suggested. When you all think about high school, do you think about your prom? Or everything else instead?

Some fancy local restaurant should hook the kid and his girl up with a free meal. That sounds more fun anyway!

Rules are Rules.

That said.

Home Schooling is the correct answer. Educate your own children and let those "leaders" find a new job.

Why is everybody jumping at the school for this? He knew that if he got in trouble after April 1st, he would be barred from prom, that kind of thing usually gets explained at the start of the year and get repeated as the date approaches. It's his own fault.

Is it just me or did many of the short responses from people who voted "yes" seem like they should actually have voted "no"? For example, in post #27, Marshall-3461627 stated

If it was so dangerous to put the sign up, then why did the school let him take it down. Let him go to the prom. Marshall:Tampa.

Seems like that is actually a "no" vote. Too many people didn't read the options and voted "yes" in favor of banning Tate from the prom when they meant to vote "no" in favor of allowing him to attend. That's unfortunate because had they actually read the choices and voted accordingly, the percent in favor of allowing him to attend would be greater that 94.3%.

Atleast they didn't hit "Pat Buchanen"

That is ridiculous. There is a huge difference between a kid using his chosen medium to ask for a date in a non-offensive manner and someone else using the same medium to insult or harass, and no kid should be this extensively punished for this. The girl was not offended and he didn't insult anyone. They didn't let it slide, and no one is suggesting they should have, but the punishment was excessive; make the kid clean it up, give him detention or a few days picking up trash on school grounds

It may be ridiculous but there is not huge difference between something that is "harmless" and something that's "potentially offensive" from a legal standpoint. Why? Because it's all subjective people keep trying to have a common sense discussion even though it's a legal issue. What's harmless to one person can easily be offensive to others. And there is no reason for a school to put themselves in a position where they have to defend a double standard. Most are already strapped for cash as it is.

The punishment is most certainly excessive in a vacuum, but schools adopt zero tolerance policies for a reason. It cuts down on legal fees. You don't have to like it but until you can find a way to stop our overly litigous society from filing frviolous law suits then you really have no room to complain. These policies save our schools and by extension us as taxpayers money.

That's the real hypocrisy of it all. Everyone wants to complain about higher taxes but no one wants to pay the price to lower them. You can't have it both ways.

Chance of a lawsuit excuse! What a bunch of garbage for control freaks to use. Nothing more. Lawsuits are decided by a jury of your peers and the other sides peers, in any action a taxpayer is on the jury, and Government is one of the parties involved. It is self propagating for lawyers to constantly talk about it. Look in the Attorney section of your Yellow pages. I fell because of a faulty sidewalk last summer and had 17 lawyers contact me to sue the property owner. I, myself, asked the owner to pay the bill for ambulance transportation and the stitch's required , he did, and I went on with life. Not forgetting my grandsons comment "just lift your feet higher". That jury weighs the facts and rules.They can apply common sense and are expected to. The looser will always complain they are being picked on rather than the truth of I got caught. When incompetence gets really bad they blame the system and want exempted for it. Like the American Medical ass. does as a cover for outragous fees' Doctors are charging. All self promotion.

The essential purpose of schools pertains to the kids' education, not to avoid litigation.

You think that losing the lawsuit is what the schools are afraid of? That just shows how out of touch you are with the econmic realities and legal issues. The reason why so many lawsuits get settled is because it makes no sense from a financial standpoint to go to trial where a jury can exercise common sense to find in favor of the school districts.

People who have done nothing legally wrong, throw good money away every single day because it's far more expensive in terms of attorney's fees and negative publicity (where applicable) to prove they aren't at fault than it is to just settle under a confidentiality agreement and make it go away. Schools aren't as petrified of losing as they they are of just watching half their budget going down the tubes every year to pay a bunch of lawyers to fend off law suits.

Either way, fight it or settle, it's a net loss and schools suffer. And you think they should endure it because one kid is facing the prospect of missing his prom over something he knew was against the rules in the first place. And I'm the one that makes no sense?

The whole system is screwed up but you don't decide to start fixing up the 2nd floor of your house when the foundation is crumbling. You need to focus your energy on fixing the things that force schools (and businesses for that matter) to put these sorts of policies in place to begin with.

And you can't educate kids if you have no money in your budget because it's all going to lawyers. Seriously, take off the blinders.

@Iswingly...Shows how smart you are. You have to have a VALID reason to file a lawsuit. In this case there would be no settling because when you are committing illegal activities, you can not file a civil suit!!! Go get a business and personal law book before you speak! I am almost sure he didn't think he was doing anything wrong either. You DON'T make sense.. POW

Iswingly:

Please, do you really think you are going to make your point using clear, rational, logical arguments that reflect the REAL world.

Most of these folks are purely about emotion. Bend the rule just a teeny bit, it's OK. Then the next guy says, but I only bent the rule a teensy bit more, and so it goes. At some point, you draw a line. That line had already been drawn. Now, after the fact there is a clamor to bend that rule, just a teeny bit.

Sorry Iswingly, logic stands no chance against emotion.

Here's a few questions to ponder. How many of these folks do you suppose have EVER attended a school board meeting? How many complain about high taxes and poor school performance, but couldn't begin to tell you why that is happening? How many of them do you suppose have been on a campus since they graduated? You know the answers.

Your only consolation here is that you can be secure in the knowledge that you are absolutely correct. (There almost seems to be an inverse correlation between how correct you are and the number of times your posts are collapsed. Speaks to the quality of education after a fashion, doesn't it?)

I'd like to know where the Mod. is for this article. Having comments collapsed just because our views disagree with what the majority feels is not considered "inflammatory" or "no value," or offensive. It is considered free speech and spurs debate that others may learn from. The Mod. needs to restore the comments permanently if able.

Fifty well applied lashes during a school assembly would have been more in keeping with the severity of his crime.

You know 50 lashes is basically a death sentence right?

Sorry Iswingly, logic stands no chance against emotion.

Logic would dictate that the punishment should fit the crime. Logic would dictate that when administering punishment upon a person, ALL factors should be weighed (that includes emotional factors), culminating in a REASONABLE judgement.

Clearly, banning this kid from prom for a very harmless minor infraction of which his intent was entirely benign - is far beyond reasonable, and FAR beyond logical.

by your so-called "logic" you would fine someone for breaking down a door in order to escape a burning building. rules are rules - and that's destruction of property.

LOL. It's amazing how many people on here are saying, because he wrote a love message, he should be treated differently than everyone else. Anyone else who tresspasses onto school property and does something similiar to this will recieve a harsh punishment, but him, he can be the exception. Grow up. That's what's wrong with this world as it is. Too many exceptions to the rules. How can you treat everyone fairly if you bend the rules? Are you people seriously telling me that the school should allow this kind of behavior, from all students? Aren't their other students who would like to ask their dates to the prom this way? I guess those students should get a slap on the wrist as well. Whenever a judge makes a decision he thinks about the precendent that he is setting. These school officials are thinking about the future.

This is a gross violation of a written rule. Compassion has no place here. Stoning would be appropriate here as outlined in the Old Testament. The headmaster should begin the stoning and the parents of these three could then join in. Fair is fair.

How can you treat everyone fairly if you bend the rules?

Isn't that what fairness is all about? Making judgements based on the specific offense and all factors involved? Rules are designed to allow flexibility, that is why we have human presiding over such judgement, to ALLOW for this very thing. Those making judgements should NOT be automotons.

Are you people seriously telling me that the school should allow this kind of behavior, from all students?

No, what we are saying is that the punishment was too harsh in this instance. Give him a punishment still, but let him go to prom. Make it well known that tresspassing will not be tolerated, and such 'gestures' would need prior approval from the school in the future.

Aren't their other students who would like to ask their dates to the prom this way?

I think by now it would be considered cliche. Nobody wants sloppy seconds.

All cases are special cases.

All of you that are defending the school for suspending the kid are missing something. The school set an arbitrary date of April 1 after which any suspensions would result in being banned from the prom. So these kids could have done the same thing BEFORE that date, receive suspension and still attend the prom. That is the issue for me. Why the attempt to ramp up consequences so late? Did this "offense" actually deserve suspension?

The rule is, if you are suspended after April 1st you can not go to the prom. The rule has been in place for ages. I guess if you do something sweet the rules don't apply to you.

This entire issue could have been avoided if he would have asked someone if he could do this which would have avoided the suspension. Instead he took the chance and now has to pay for it. If he asked and was told no and did it anyway is the punishment still too severe? He didn't make that opportunity for himself and will never know.

In the Scouts we teach the boys that rules are rules. If you don't like the rules voice your displeasure and try to get them changed but you still follow the rules.

I guess if you are well spoken and nice clean cut kids we should forgive, at least that is what the comments seem to convey. Good kids break rules too and they should take their medicine. Once you let one kid slide you lose authority over that rule.

We have such an issue in this country with kids making the rules and having a total lack of respect for adults. The reaction I am seeing to this is a great example of why adults have lost control.

Ask permission before doing something questionable. Years ago kids used to do it all the time.

Jumping off my soapbox before it collapses

My first comment is actually SHAME on the Newsvine posters/readers who are collapsing the comments that support the ban -- JUST BECAUSE THEY DON'T AGREE. Most of those comments were respectful and on target (I didn't read them all).

Hopefully, Newsvine will take action and restore them.

Having said that -- I also don't agree with it. From what I can tell, this student did not damage school property or do something permanent to school property. He just put up cardboard letters.

Should he be responsible for it? Absolutely. But unless there is a clearly written policy that says "putting up signs on campus without permission will lead to a one day suspension" the punishment was a judgement call on the headmaster's part. And I feel it was bad judgement, but now his pride won't let him back down.

However, if that policy does exist -- then the kid is truly screwed and deservedly so.

Should he be responsible for it? Absolutely. But unless there is a clearly written policy that says "putting up signs on campus without permission will lead to a one day suspension" the punishment was a judgement call on the headmaster's part. And I feel it was bad judgement, but now his pride won't let him back down.

It's probably a suspension for trespassing after school hours. A lot of schools are pretty strict on that now.

But people, listen, rules are meant to be flexible. The very purpose of rules is to set a guideline - not a punishment.

Punishments are meant to be individualized, based upon the specific offense and ALL factors involved. Have we not forgotten the whole purpose of having human Judges? Or should we just all switch over to automotons, and receive our punishment declarations by a computer screen after entering in our codified infraction number?

This kid should be punished, no doubt. He should have asked permission. But the 'no prom' rule is not set in stone (ie human judgement and reason), and in this particular case it is simply an unreasonable punishment.

Some seriously dense people on here that find it too hard to understand this very basic concept within society.

And folks wonder why teachers/school administrators don't get any respect. Because they make dumb decisions like this. They have no common sense anymore. Just a bunch of tyrants with tenure.

And folks wonder why teachers/school administrators don't get any respect. Because they make dumb decisions like this. They have no common sense anymore. Just a bunch of tyrants with tenure.

My brother is a teacher and he tries to be as fair and reasonable as he can.

The problem is not so much the teachers themselves, but it's the fact that they are state employees under the thumb of the school board. Giving the principal/teacher any sort of 'ownership' or 'judgment' over policy decisions (like this one) has been long lost due to the ever-increasing influence of the boards. "Walk the Line"

Stepping outside the hardline policy established by your 'bosses' - even IF it is good and reasonable judgement to do so - will result in disciplinary action REGARDLESS of the circumstances.

THAT IS THE PROBLEM WITH SCHOOLS THESE DAYS. Yet you still have people on here espousing this very thing - while complaining that the kids are not 'disciplined' lol... it's because the teachers - who actually know the students - hands are tied in this regard, BY YOU.

The scouts are aslo trained to perpared and to adjust to sitituation. They scout masters themselves have had to adjust to the rules and have scoffed at the ideas that what was is no longer.

I asked my son school and their is no rule that actual covers such an event down here. The schools office down here did say that as long as it caused no lasting harm it is not suspendable case.

Kids today look at rock stars, elected officals, Bank and oil CEOs and learn how they became what they are and look how many of them broke rules.

Did he deserve to be punished? yes

to the extent he was? heck no

Make the punishment fit the crime and use some common sense. I used to have a principal who ignored, yes ignored, reports of students bullying other students and seriously disruptng classes. Yet she suspended a child who found a knife on the playground and picked it up and turned it into her classroom teacher, rather leaving it there and going to get the playground teacher, since the bell was about to ring anyway. Another principal, who also ignored simular problems, actually wrote a first grader up for a sexual offence and put it in his permanent school record because he mooned another kid in the bathroom.

And yes, it should make a difference that this was a kid who was not a habitual trouble maker. Even in our legal system, judges take the persons record and likelihood of repeating the offence into consideration.

For those above who are blaming teachers, please consider it is likely no teacher was given a voice in this decision. Teachers do not run the schools. Administrators do.

I do not know about this particular case, but many administrators seem to prefer to deal with something cut and dried, like putting up cardboard letters without permission, than the kid who is sent down by the teacher for repeatedly disrupting class or deciding who is the guilty party in a bullying case, even though those are more serious issues. The disruptive kid says the teacher is picking on me and his/her parents say you're picking on my child and the administrator decides to handle it by saying "a good teacher can handle all their own discipline within their classroom, no matter what."

Not all administrators and principals are like this. I've had six, three were great and three were arbitrary and inconsistant in enforcement. Guess where overall school discipline was best? Where the principals were involved, yet used common sense.

The only thing worse than having a moron in a position of authority is having an arrogant moron in that position. There is no rational reason for imposing such
a penalty for this very minor transgression. She is attempting to defend the indefensible and should lose her job.

Look for some lawyer to appear and file suit over this.

wiser with age:

If some one else supplies another hall for the kids to go to it is not a school function. It is a dance which these school students happen to be going to together.

I say all the kids should boycott the prom and go anywhere else but where the official prom is held. Parents should assist to provide the normal prom attractions that the school would normally provide. Maybe all the teachers and the headmaster sitting there twirling their thumbs all night will teach them the lesson they need to learn. Make no mistake about it, the administration of that school are the ones who need to be taught a lesson here. Black and white rules without any consideration for the circumstances are retarded. Anyone with but a shred of common sense knows this.

Robin1380136, kit-kat and probably a few others .... what's a matter bitter hags that never got a invite to prom?

Sure sounds like it .... or just School Administrators trying to cover for the ridiculous action of another of their ilk

I agree that "headmaster" should be fired and career ruined so she gets a sense of what over reation is!

It wasn't a safety risk when he cleaned up because it was school sanctioned and supervised.

And yet the chances of him being hurt were exactly the same - meaning it was still a safety risk. Hypocritical much?

For those who feel that allowing the boy to go, is like giving him the freedom to drive over the speed limit whenever he wants. With that said, then one half to three quarters of the driving population must have at one time or another broken a rule such as this in their lives, correct? Laws are meant to not bend and have strict punishments. Rules are not laws, and are made to bend and be reshaped over time. When your a child, and you break a rule at home, were you not talked to by your parents first, then a thoughtout punishment set to fit the broken rule? Or were your parents without a heart and just punished you with something that was way beyond the type of rule that was broken, because they had the punishment set in stone first? Think about it.

I say all the kids should boycott the prom and go anywhere else but where the official prom is held. Parents should assist to provide the normal prom attractions that the school would normally provide. Maybe all the teachers and the headmaster sitting there twirling their thumbs all night will teach them the lesson they need to learn.

This may be slightly off-topic, but...you're kidding, right? Do you really think that having no one show up for the prom and sending the teachers home early would be punishment for them?

Teachers--even those of us that really like our jobs and our students--HATE doing this stuff. I've chaperoned a couple of proms, and I can think of about a million ways I'd rather spend a Saturday night than hanging around work until midnight in uncomfortable shoes, trying to keep teenagers from sneaking in alcohol or groping each other.

I'm sure that if the parents want to put in all the preparation and decorating time and have the prom somewhere else, the teachers will give them a great big "thank you." They'd probably even let the parents do it every year from now on, and then the school wouldn't have to have any policies on who can or cannot go to prom.

This student did not cause any damage to the school, he was not trying to embarrass or harrass anyone. Why is it that schools either overreact over something so small and refuse to act when a child is being bullied?

Schools WAY overreact to things these days!!! I remember when I was like in 3rd or 4th grade I accidentilly scratched a boy in my class. He cried went to the office and I had to go home with a note to my parents saying I scratched a kid, I nearly got SUSPENDED for doing something like this. One thing they left out of the article, was the fact that he did it on cardboard, so it could easily been taken off.

He should never have been suspended in the first place. Maybe a little detention, but suspension for what he did is too much.

THIS is what teachers who can't be fired provide. A misery for youth.

Um, a teacher didn't set disciplinary policy nor enforce it. An administrator did that. They are not the same animal. You'd be shocked at how little classroom time is required for someone to become an administrator. Let's not start the old tarring teachers for something they didn't do nonsense simply b/c you don't know who else works at a school but teachers.

Who IS allowed to prom? Are kids who have bullied other kids in the past allowed to go? Are kids who are disrespectful to their teachers allowed to go? Are kids who have written on bathroom walls (do kids still do that?) allowed to go?

TYVM & THAT is why this policy is wrong & should've been rescinded, NOT the headmaster's laughable crumble under media pressure.

She is sending an incorrect message to her students. She is telling them that from Sept 1st thru March 31st they can get into trouble every single day & they can still attend prom. Is that right? A kid can spend the vast majority of the academic yr breaking the rules but s/he still gets to go to the prom?

It's inequitable that ONE infraction after a set date is criteria for banishment from an important end of the yr event. What does two infractions merit, missing graduation? Three & she burns your diploma & makes you repeat the yr?

Missing prom attendance should NOT be based on whether a student had sufficient self-control to follow the rules in the month b4 the event. It should be based upon behavior for the entire yr.

And that's where this administrator's policy is wrong for both students & teachers. She's bribing students to turn in good behavior for a very sm amt of time & subjecting teachers to putting up w/ bad behavior for a very long amt of time w/ such an ill-thought policy. It should be a certain # of serious infractions starting from the moment the student commences on their career in the bldg, NOT just for the mo prior to prom.

That's a joke of a policy & a joke of an administrator, so I'm not surprised she fell apart under a media spotlight. She needs to revamp her management policies entirely, not make an exception b/c bad things are being said about her. What a moron.

Iswingly, Since you see this from a legal point of view, allow me to present an everymans point of view.

The litigous society of today wasn't caused by folks seeking redress for real legal claims,but rather by lawyers talking people into believing they had a right to redress over trivial things. When I was young and tripped over a crack in the sidewalk, I was told to watch my feet a little more.

And even more culpable are the Judges...who are themselves lawyers...who allow trivial and even stupid lawsuits to proceed instead of asking "Who the Hell brought this before me???

What is a prom?? big deal!

Prom is nothing just have an after prom party problem SOLVED!!

With the money the three of them make, I think they can afford to bask in the sun for a few minutes.

As a progressive minded mom, I'm guessing Angie didn't mind!

Perhaps we give angelina, jack & dustin to much attention. Sometimes the simple things in life are much more important, like a once in a lifetime experience - dahhh the prom!!!

Because most of us are more interested in hearing a story about two sweet, pleasant, well-spoken teens who are modeling more mature behavior than the adults in position of authority at the school, than a few Hollywood folks plugging their latest. Seriously!?!

Yeah, anyway, doesn't she have some grand gesture to make adopting some kid from somewhere?

TMZ and Entertainment Tonight are always on David. Go watch it and let the rest of us enjoy a wonderful, romantic story about REAL people.

Anyone who takes your attitude must never have been a teenager. What a dopey comment. God forbid that we should have our celebrity worship interrupted for a few seconds to expose a looney decision made by a bunch of nitwits and learn how that decision has effected two innocent teens. I'm old, but not too old to remember some of the nutty things I did as a teen. It is ironic that we want to take money away from teachers and still fund the top-heavy layer of halfwitted administrators who have no in-class experience and make halfwitted decisions such as this one.

Kieth, you're right on the money. I'm getting old myself, but I remember telling the principal once that if he needed to discipline me as stupidly as in this case, I'd be happy to give him a better reason, then proceeded to do so, with vigah. Stupidity does not breed respect, especially if it is demanded by a petty potentate.

are you kidding me? you are concerned about a few millionaires waiting in the sun and not about some kids future. what a moron.

celebrities can bite me! Bake celebrities, BAKE!

Just give angelina as much attention as she gives american children who desperately need to be adopted....NONE. Everytime her name comes up I can't help but spit on the ground. None of these kids are good enough for her....they all are "spoiled and not in as much neeed as freign children" ( tell that to the orphans who are 3 days old and found in a garbage can),as she put it in one interview, so to hell with her. Let's turn the camera on these two kids and make sure she knows she's not good enough to take the main spotlight. These two can take their time in the headlines if it means keeping Nanny McJolie out!

Angelina

Fake Marriage

Fake adoption

Fake Fake Fake

But more relevant than this article.

How about we NOT leave Angelina Jolie, Jack Black and Dustin Hoffman waiting and baking in the sun while Matt interviews this flash in the pan prom couple??

Perhaps because not all of us are into celebrity worship. They already get enough time and attention for their "acting" skills (OK, Hoffman can).

Don't know where you all live that a 17-18 year old standing on a ladder is considered "dangerous". I would suggets coming out to a farm and watching what kids half that age do on a daily basis. 'Course public schools now are geared towards producing mindless drones that regurgitate the information provided... making for good, obedient workers. While the kids whose parents can afford private schools are taught to think creatively so they can assume the positions of the executives. Fight the power kids. Prom is just a dance, hold your own and tell the school to stick it, I gurantee you'll remember it better and longer.

Yeah, love and kindness that is crushed by simple minded authority! Do not ever try to be creative or different! You must conform and be timid and as small minded as we tell you to be! Do not dare draw attention to yourself. And, you can't make a public display of affection....

completly agree with this. but then this only happens in the movies. the big screen in the football field. the romantic message everyone shouting, aplausing. enveryone happy for the romantic couple;. we will all have to waken up and realize that we are in the real world. not in fantasy land. too bad. i wish this guy the best and thank him for keeping romance alive.

I forgot to put this in. wish the schools would pay more attention on bulling and harrasing. that has lead to very troubling consequenses . not on these innocent issues. ok. you want to punish him give another one but let him go to the prom with his girl. all the seniors should take the prom somewhere else.

If more teens were concerned about making another happy, the drug problem and bullying would soon be obsolete!

At least it wasn't graffiti and only card board. He even said he would be take it down. No creativity in Schools anymore. Now thats sad. I am so glad I am a student of the 70's cause I would never make it through high school today.Plus most high schools with the BIG iron fences remind me to much like putting the kids of today in jail.

He broke both school policy and the law. He's lucky they didn't give him a ticket or prosecute. They could have.

If he'd fallen and broken his arm while putting up these letters, he'd have sued. And won. School policies like this are a safety-measure, and an attempt to prevent liability in our over-litigious society. He could have asked permission to do something like this, and then he'd have learned better. Contrary to popular belief, it is not better to ask forgiveness than permission. In systems like this, if they make an exception for one, they often can't enforce the rules for others.

It was a nice gesture. However, he did it the wrong way, in the wrong place, at the wrong time. And he has to pay for that.

yeah, but see, if he'd done it before April 1, he would still have been able to go to Prom. where's the logic there? the story mentioned the decision to ban from Prom all suspendees after April 1, so if he'd done this back in February, he'd have been fine. Howcome it's ok in February but not in April or May?

yeah ghostcoon, and if we had some ice cream, we could have apple pie a la mode, if we had some apple pie. Are you saying that schools should be run for the main purpose of avoiding liability?

This guy is damn lucky he didn't get arrested. We had some seniors at my school pull this kind of prank and got arrested.

more than likely because it was far more destructive

ghostcoon:

You cannot sue someone when you have committed an illegal act. That's like breaking in someones house and getting bit by their dog. You can't sue because their dog was out of control or vicious and you got ripped to pieces. if you slip and fall because there's ice on the walkway, trying to get away from a crime you committed, you cannot sue the owner of the home for not properly shoveling and de-icing their property. Do you see the pattern here. The school had no liabilty for something that didn't even happen.

Oh really, BeeKay? How about this?

http://www.military-quotes.com/forum/burglar-sues-homeowner-shot-him-t39587.html

ghostcoon:

I couldn't agree more. I'm a 25 year old woman. By no means was I raised with a paddle and things like that in my school (I'm a bit young for that!). However, I grew up to become a responsible teen and later adult. Why? I was brought up in such a way that I understood my actions had consequences. They were never physically abusive, but taking away the things I loved was always enough for me (I cannot say as much for my older brother though, who frequently was punished more severely and still made poor choices).

What completely blows my mind is that these students never thought he would get punished for this deed. Did his parents know of the plan and warn him? Did his friends warn him? For such a 'bright student,' he seems to not understand consequences.

I, too, will inevitably be collapsed. I'm not trying to 'stir the pot' or anything like that. I just cannot fathom how these students did not expect some form of punishment (I'm also not saying being banned from prom may be the right form of punishment) and find it indicative of a pervasive trend in today's generation.

sorry beekay but you can sue if you are injured in a illigal act.When I was very young and lived in chicago .a man broke into a shop that had a german shepard.The dog did its job and the robber sued the owner and won the case.Its too bad that it is that way but it is.

yeah, but see, if he'd done it before April 1, he would still have been able to go to Prom. where's the logic there? the story mentioned the decision to ban from Prom all suspendees after April 1, so if he'd done this back in February, he'd have been fine. Howcome it's ok in February but not in April or May?

Because the administrator is a moron who thinks a single month of good behavior from her students at the close of their academic career in her bldg is positive criteria for prom attendance. The remainder of their senior yr & the entirety of their freshman, sophomore, & junior yrs they can be total anti-social psychopaths yet still attend prom if they can act like angels for a single month. What a crock policy.

The administrator is also a sour old pickle-puss (not matter what her chronological age) who probably is resentful of this very attractive young woman having this kind of attention lavished upon her by a sweet,attentive young man.

Beth Smith's comment that she is astonished at the amount of attention that her spiteful, mean actions attracted from all over the globe is very telling.Translation:She thought she could get by with it.

As a school maintenance worker - he should get in trouble for this garbage. All too often kids trash and create more of a burden on the tax payer by not using their head (and yes I did read the part about him offering to clean it up - not the point).

Yeah school is fun fun - thats why we are no longer in the top ten best educated countries in the world in reading and science and not even in the top 20 in math.

How about less fun and more learning...

I suppose if our judges and lawyers didn't lack common sense, we ultimately wouldn't have to worry about the lack of common sense any parent or school administrator/teacher has. Judges have the final say in cases such as suing for farcry reasons right? such as a kid making his own decision to play the risk of being "injured" while making a creative way to ask a girl to prom?

How about we all just live in a bubble from here on out huh? that way no one can sue anyone for supposedly being held liable for someone else, when clearly most people can take care of their own liability..Can we please have the 80s, 90s back already?

Mike if our schools are so bad why are thousands, from China and other countries, paying tuition and room and board Of $30000.00+ a year, to have there high school kids come here for education. Then many times that for college ? Could we be duped by the education lobby to get billions more for there special interests ?

CHARLEY 60

Mike if our schools are so bad why are thousands, from China and other countries, paying tuition and room and board Of $30000.00+ a year, to have there high school kids come here for education. Then many times that for college ? Could we be duped by the education lobby to get billions more for there special interests ?

Not talking about colleges - our colleges are good. We have some of the best engineering schools in the world.

And Im sure Chinese sending their kids over here falls along the same lines as them coming over here to give birth. Overpopulation, pollution, etc.

As a school maintenance worker - he should get in trouble for this garbage. All too often kids trash and create more of a burden on the tax payer by not using their head (and yes I did read the part about him offering to clean it up - not the point).

He did clean it up, not just offer, & it wasn't remotely vandalism or creating any "taxpayer burden" as it wasn't done w/ spray paint but w/ removeable letters that didn't leave any marks behind. The schl janitor there has plenty of time to go out on the loading dock & bust a smoke, don't worry.

It wasn't about vandalism it was about trespassing. If he had gotten hurt and brought a lawsuit against the school that would have been their defence. If they didn't enforce this , it would have established a precedent and weakened their ability to use trespassing as a defence when some whack job does get hurt.

He should have gotten permission from the principal before hand.

Harsh ? Yes ! Necessary though, in this litigous society.

Spudnik, I agree that as he trespassed, the school needed to provide a punishment to discourage further trespassing and be able to defend themselves in a lawsuit.

I don't agree that this was the right punishment. If this kid has never had a suspension before or gotten into serious trouble, a 1 day suspension and having to clean up the mess was probably all it would take for his peers to think "oops, can't do that". If, however, he has had a 1 or 2 suspensions that year or other disciplinary issues, then the punishment should be increased to include prom.

Basically - a kid that has been great throughout his high school career should be shown some leniency, because it shows other students that as long as you do your best and are good, a mistake isn't the end of the world.

If you treat him like the kids in high school who do vandalize the school with malicious intent, then kids will be left with thinking there's no point to towing the line - you mess up once, you might as well mess up a hundred times. Punishments the same.

Right! Zero tolerance for everything!

Clearly this young punk should have go the death penalty. You have to set an example when someone breaks the rules or everyone will break the rules. Every kid in high school needs to be taught to be a good little robot and do everything, exactly as they are told, otherwise the whole country will dissolve into chaos! Won't somebody think of the children!!!???

How is this trespassing unless there is a law prohibiting being on public property after business hours? The property is public--owned by taxpayers, which includes the boys' parents.

This whole episode is way out of proportion.

spudnik and minnie. balogna. imposing authority on such matters prevents responsible judgment and justifies the lazy who are thereby excused from thinking. Such behavior by those having authority (as they suppose) does not inspire respect. It breeds defiance and contempt, and furthers imposition of more authority (force) instead of patience and persuasion. Why do we so readily get into the lazy practice of treating kids like mayo jars, unscrewing the lid, trying to put in or take out what we want, then screwing the lid back on and demanding that the operation be ordered a success, instead of making the effort to teach kids to govern themselves?

He couldn't go to prom because he was suspended. You can't suspend him and then let him go to prom. Anyone who is trouble around prom can't attend.

BW-267706

How is this trespassing unless there is a law prohibiting being on public property after business hours? The property is public--owned by taxpayers, which includes the boys' parents.

If it is public property that means they should be able to go in and wander around the building too right? After all it is tax payer owned right?

I wonder if I can have a zero tolerance policy for zero tolerance?

Bob, do you mean that if a kid breaks a rule, he should not be punished?

I'm sorry, in the big boys world, actions have consequences. The only way a school can be consistent is to have policies on what consequences will happen with certain actions.

I think this school went excessively far, and instead of teaching a lesson, they did make him upset and want to retaliate. THAT was their error and that reaction I'll agree with you on. However, having a consequence shows other students who might have otherwise copied him that this is not possible.

I mean that rules and authority do not exist for their own sake and should never be imposed so as to excuse the decider from the responsibility for exercising judgment. The world is real, not merely theoretical. In this case, respect for rules and authority was not promoted, rather it has been met with the contempt it deserves.

Elect him prom king, in absentia if necessary.

Would the kids playing basketball on school grounds after class be trespassing? How about the adults walking around the track for exercise, before and after school hours or during the summer, more trespassing. What if some of the parents played tennis at the tennis courts during the evening, more trespassing. What about walking the dog across the campus, trespassing? What if the headmaster forgot something of a personal nature in his office and went back in the evening to get it, would that not be trespassing? Athletic team members returning late to cars they left in the school parking lot, after game and after hours, coach may be trespassing too as it isn't during school hours, and the school function was over while they were miles away. I hope this sounds silly, about as silly as what this young kid did, but not as silly as what the headmaster did.

YES, they sure have!

They are just trying to show how important they are. drugs, truancy, and bullying, i could see a reaction like that, but then they were never young. maybe they didn't care much about their prom.

For Gawd sakes, let those kids go to their prom!

yes! How about the Sense of Romance???!!!! <3

Yeah, who cares about the rules. While they're at it, they should let the kids do drugs in the hallways and have sex in classrooms. That's against school policy too, but the kids want to do it. Doesn't that mean they should be allowed?

Get over yourselves. The school has rules and policies in place. If they don't enforce them, there's no point. The standard punishment for this kind of thing is suspension. Their rules were that no one suspended after a certain date could go to prom. If they make an exception for this kid, they have to make exceptions for all of them. And that's the worst message they could send the kids in any school.

If this were my kid, I'd tell him tough luck. That's why you ask first.

Wow Ghost. I'm starting teaching in the fall, and I hope there are few teachers in the school I'm working at as heartless and bitter as you. Maybe you should review Kholberg's theory on stages of moral development. Sounds like you're stuck in the stage most people pass through by the time they leave kindergarten--the stage where a rule is a rule and we must follow the rules because it's the rule to follow the rules. Is it time for you to retire yet?

Yes, actions need consequences. But the punishment also needs to fit the crime. Intent of the crime should be considered, as well.

I completely agree with you! Dealing with similar issues at my son's school as well...

except he trespassed on school grounds, and yes putting up cardboard letters is still considered vandalism. If anything he should be expelled, and then charges filed.

Brian - get a life.

Brian you were obviously molested when you were young.

Brian, what a complete a-hole you are...why not ask for the death penalty

Brian, you've had a hard life, huh?

I hope you don't have kids.

get a clue Brian. I hope I'm never forced to be beholden to you for anything.

I love how 1 guy gives his opinion on something and in turn he is accussed of...

1) Being molested

2) Being an a-hole

3) Having no life

4) and told he shouldnt procreate

I find these responses indicative of the complete utter lack of discipline kids have these days - which starts at the parental level. People like you are why we are not even in the top 10 best educated in the world anymore.

I think the responses to Brian are just as applicable to mike-416. At least Brian can spell. Ve must haf discipline! You seem to extrapolate from the ridiculous to the sublime. We are not in the top 10 best educated because we disagree with the stupid overapplication of authority? I seriously doubt you want a more authoritarian government. Our education system is faltering because people whine about investing in it, and those same people seem to want us to be uneducated and in poor health while striving to pay off the national debt. No Child Left Behind means in effect teaching to the level of the least able. Bright kids are bored by this, not impressed, and drop out. That means fewer scientists, who just propogate evil ideas such as evolution anyway. Others just want to be commanded what to do, in all things. No need for education if it's other people who command. Just for practice, why don't you try changing your mind about something today? Practice so you don't get too rusty at it and thereby lose your ability to learn.

Mike

You and Brian = 5% from a random sampling of people saying punish the boy.

You can feel free to express your opinion, but with those odds expect to get crap for it and realize you're also very very wrong. You have violated society's standards at that point, as dictated by your fellows in society. Feel the wrath.

Your wrongheadedness is only topped with complete arrogance in your last sentence. "People like you" You mean like the other 95% of us? No sir you're not superior. You're not special....well at least not in a 'good' way.

Cniht:

I'm another one of the "wrong" people in that 5% margin. When was it that you graduated highschool? Where I grew up, things only started to really warp in the late 1990's.

In my freshman year, a couple of students fought with deadly force outside of school and one of them died. Who took the blame and got sued into the ground? The school system. Why? Because these two trashy boys in an affluent suburb community got in a brawling fight during school lunch on Friday. It was ruled that the school was responsible because the murder was a continuation of that school fight.

Then that winter, a false rape case was reported and claimed to have happened in the school basement. All of the media loved to jump all over that one as it started, but refused to publicly report that the case was later thrown out. I suppose that the media felt embarrassed because they never investigated the woman's background, which showed multiple prior case of false rape accusations as a way of getting attention for herself. Even though the school ended up in the right, they were never given credit for it and the black mark against the school system was never removed.

We live in a world where people are fond of shifting the blame onto others. Also we're very willing to sue people and institutions into the ground over minor things. If we had a legal system like other countries where the losing party pays the legal costs for both sides (which I believe France has), then we would have so many crazy lawsuits. But we don't have such a system. All too often schools are forced into settlements because of the costs of a legal trial.

If that boy and his friends got hurt during their prom sign stunt, the school would have been held responsible and sued into the stone age. As a result, the school was forced to make a completely fascist response and ban the kid from prom. It's really unfair in the big scheme of things, but it's the only way that the school was legally cover itself in our current pro-sueing culture.

I'm with Brian and Mike. And if you work in schools like I do, and see the selfish kids who think they can do whatever they want with no thought to the consequences, then you'd see how much your permissive attitudes are hurting our children.

Why aren't we ranked as high in schools? No, Bob, it's not because we don't invest. We pay more for out public schools than almost every other country on the list ahead of us. It's because our students know they can't fail. When a student doesn't do their homework, doesn't attend class, and doesn't try, they should fail right? The problem is, if they fail, the teacher gets punished for it, sometimes even fired. So the teachers bend over backward for them to get their grades up, sometimes even giving them the grades for free because they're afraid for their jobs. This has been going on for years.

The teachers are evaluated based on standardized tests that the kids don't care about. The teachers spend half their curriculum for the year trying to get kids to do well on these tests instead of teaching them real material, only to have the students put "C" in every box because they can't be bothered to try. And then the teacher gets blamed for it.

Kids know they aren't accountable. You and everyone who thinks "it was a silly rule he broke, and he didn't mean any harm" have made sure the kids know that they can do what they want. By doing that, you do them and everyone in our society a grave disservice. The best thing you could tell this kid, and anyone like them, who finally get caught and punished, is "tough luck, next time ask first."

Bob Pomeroy

I think the responses to Brian are just as applicable to mike-416. At least Brian can spell. Ve must haf discipline! You seem to extrapolate from the ridiculous to the sublime. We are not in the top 10 best educated because we disagree with the stupid overapplication of authority?

OH NOES MY GRAMMER!!11

No - we are not in the top 10 because you think kids should just have fun. Oh go just have fun. School should be fun. Yeah take your fun and shove it - no say your times tables again.

Our education system is faltering because people whine about investing in it, and those same people seem to want us to be uneducated and in poor health while striving to pay off the national debt. No Child Left Behind means in effect teaching to the level of the least able.

Actually - our educational system is failing because of parenting. I graduated in the early 90's and when I got in trouble - the first thing my parents did was chew me out. Now a days - the first person to get chewed out is the teacher. "My kid wouldnt do that".

Bright kids are bored by this, not impressed, and drop out.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. Dumbest thing I have ever read. Actually - drop out rates directly correlate with poverty levels and the number of parents at home. Not kids being bored. ROFL!

gee, I experienced the same thing in the 50's and 60's. but I won't condemn you for your youth and inexperience. The parenting problem will always exist, and I know why you are rolfing about bright kids dropping out from boredom. I'm sure most others do as well.

Wiser,

I graduated in the 'mid' 90's. To this day our school still has an open-unfenced campus, and the 'fenced' track and football field is completely open to the public after hours and on the weekends. As for claiming some crazy change happened in the late 90's, I'll have to disagree.

I was in an art class in 5th grade when one of my fellow classmates brought a loaded handgun to school and it ended up falling out of his inside coat pocket when he placed the coat over his chair. That would have been the late 80's. Crazy stuff has been happening for a good long while. If anything changed it was the invention of the 24 hour news cycle, and this type of mindless action beginning to come to the forefront of school decision making. Needless to say my school didn't respond to their incident by placing metal detectors on campus the next week, as we do now. I would argue we as people have not changed. We just have access to 'seeing' more of it now then before.

The things you're mentioning are the diseases of being an over-entitled and over litigious society. To which I concur. But that doesn't excuse the fascist response, as you so correctly labeled it. Two wrongs do not make a right. It's that type of reflex action that has brought us to this point. If we want to get away from it, we'll have to fight on the issue. Buckling or resorting to mindless decisions for the sake of 'security' in place of rational thought and 'freedom' only begets tyranny. Which is what everyone in their right mind, including yourself, sees.

No one ever said doing the 'right' thing was easy or without cost. I'd rather the school did the right thing then the easy thing. All too often they are failing in this regard, and picking easy over right. I thank you for the discussion and for assisting to help make my point.

Cniht

Wiser,

I graduated in the 'mid' 90's. To this day our school still has an open-unfenced campus, and the 'fenced' track and football field is completely open to the public after hours and on the weekends. As for claiming some crazy change happened in the late 90's, I'll have to disagree.

So does our campus - and after each weekend I have to send a guy around for several hours picking up trash, cleaning up crap from the kids and taking care of any vandalism that may have occured which has ranged from smashing a $2K granite sign to drawing a giant fluorescent orange penis on the side of our elementary school.

Then the cops in your town are not doing their job. 2 out of the 3 schools near me have fences around the playground but leave the gates open and the middle school has the main section fenced off since it is also used on weekends as a church. I see more cops patrolling the school grounds then I see driving around on the street somedays but our level of vandalism is so low They merger a couple of schools caretakers jobs into a roving band oif workers instead of one per a school.

What he did is not equal to the punishment. What is next banning kids from graduation because their friends frosted their windows with the year they are graduation on? Or no prom because of how your car looks? he put a easliy removed sign. People do all the time to get someone attention. Grow up and remember this is no longer the 50s where every idea a student has is controlled.

has anyone heard what their parents think yet?

Brian, surely your post is dripping with sarcasm. Expelled for posting cardboard letters? Isn't that a bit extreme? Perhaps that is why others are so quick to attack your thinking...

Maybe the "Headmaster" has his head somewhere the sun doesn't shine. Let james go the the Prom and let the first dance go to him and his date!

Well said!

So explain how taping pieces of paper is the equivalent of tagging to me? I'm not seeing it - taping bits of paper to a building, then removing them after the reason for them being there is finished and properly disposing of them V. spray painting on the walls of the building with paint that costs money to remove and does permanent damage to some types of brick.

Yeah, sure, and tapping a teacher on the shoulder to get their attention is the same as punching them in the face in your world, I suppose?

It wasn't about vandalism it was about trespassing. If he had gotten hurt and brought a lawsuit against the school that would have been their defence. If they didn't enforce this , it would have established a precedent and weakened their ability to use trespassing as a defence when some whack job does get hurt.

He should have gotten permission from the principal before hand.

Harsh ? Yes ! Necessary though, in this litigous society

Trespassing is a BS charge. Prove when he was there during inappropriate house. Who is to say that was not brought in on the way to school? As a student there are a lot of hours after school hours when he has a right to be on school grounds for any reason at all. I know many students who do hang on school property and the cops allow it as long as they are not destroying school property, odds are if a cop saw that and they explained it, the cop would say "OK but take it down after she says yes or no" The school with these BS no tolerance rules that are too extreme are the issue. Meanwhile you have cases of bullying, drug use and assaults on school property that go on all the time and go on unchecked because that requires too much effort on the behalf of school administrators. As a parent I know this, I have had the toe to toes with principles and administrators. The school should be ashamed of themselves, deeply ashamed. A cardboard sign with duct tape? Please! I give the kid a thumbs up for going out of his way to find the least intrusive way to do this as he clearly took the time to think of a way to do this and not damage the property. Are they going to start prosecuting all the students who hang signs on the interior next? Maybe we should ban all extracurricular signs for associations, art class and sports teams that hang on the inside! Tape does wear down the paint on the walls after a while.

Always like the old trespassing on public property arguement... It's a very gray area.. I mean was he also trespassong when he removed the sign on Sunday too after school hours? If this was truly about criminal trespassing shoudn't the police be involved?

Vandalism??? I don't see any destruction of property here...Students put signs up all the time in schools for various reasons and as long as they can be removed no harm done...

Your silly argument isn't any more convincing by virtue of repeating it over and over SpudnikIdaho.

This was not "tagging." There was no vandalism. No trespassing. The school is public property. So if a kid trips on a public sidewalk and breaks his nose, the parents will sue the city? All reasoning has gone out the window by all who support the headmaster, who is a woman, not a "he." She will have more to say on this later today (Thursday). Hopefully she will admit what a foolish incompetent "educator" she is and apologize to James as she reverses her stupid decision.

So Scott, you think the ideas of good and fair are relative, ie that if Stalin was consistently more oppressive he would have been better? Are you so committed to the idea of 'precedence' that what is done earlier in time is automatically correct? If so, 'progress' would be impossible, right? How about 'an eye for an eye' analysis, meaning the punishment should fit the crime? Does that idea justify a possibly different result? Finally, are there any limits to justifiable imposition of authority, or is it free to escalate in service to 'precedence'?

the school should cancel the prom for the student placing the school in an unflattering light.

what? You don't think that it was how the headmaster dealt with the 'problem' which placed "the school in an unflattering light"? 95% of those responding seem to disagree with you, such that a huge majority were 'unflattered' by the administrative response. Is the school in service to the students or the movie stars? Or simply to assert its authority for its own sake. Which tail is wagging which dog?

Laughable. How is he accountable. Yes I did it, but I don't want to serve the punishment is most certainly not accountability.

TychoBrahe..........

You are not getting it. He is accountable, he fessed up and took his licks. The administration is being an unreasonable bully . This ban from his prom is not equatable to his infraction.

Let me make it more clear...........

it's like sentencing a shoplifter to 25 years in prison for stealing food for his starving family.

or if you prefer -

it's like cutting the fingers off of a thief (a practice often found in the middle east).

Do those sound REASONABLE to you?

We are supposed to be fair, balanced and reasonable as adults....it's called good modeling for our youth.

suspension isnt not punishment its a vacation! okay big deal!

suspension give me a break!

suspension isnt not punishment its a vacation! okay big deal!

suspension give me a break!

It was IN-SCHOOL suspension, not sitting at home playing w/ his PSP.

In-school suspension is a punishment, trust me.

They find the smallest, most airless, windowless, unattractive grey cinderblock closet on the grounds that has an attached unisex toilet (so no hall wandering), send in a pint of white milk, an apple, & a PBJ sandwich at lunchtime, & the offenders are crammed in there at old, beat-up desks doing busy-work writing assignments that their teachers are told to dream up on the spur of the moment & will throw in the trash when received. They are not allowed to go to their lockers at any time, bring in any sort of "entertainment" like a cell phone or an iPod, or talk to ea other, as breaking the ISS rules will get them a 2nd day of it.

Some poor slob of a substitute teacher who hopes that supervising this mind-numbing exercise in punishment will lead to a position (& it invariably does, b/c it's almost always some intimidating-looking gym major who can bark orders & flex muscles as we all know athletics is more valued than academics) is usually left in charge. Some other subs will be directed to cover this guy's lunch & 2 "prep periods" so he can get a break.

It is incredibly boring to sit at a desk from 7:30am till 3pm & never budge for anything except one designated potty break in AM & PM. Boredom is a punishment for teenagers.

boo hoo, doesnt matter the official crumble under pressure.

What a wuss.

Now they are going to have more stuff like this and kids willuse this to create more mischief

The person who should be banned from the prom is the Headmaster.

It seems this is controllable in the officials eyes. They put up a blind-eye when it comes to drugs and alcohol because it's running rampant and they think they are losing a battle. It's all about them. THINK officials and put your time on those REALLY important issues that involve life and death!

Drugs and alcohol ARE a loosing battle - does prohibition ring a bell?

Anyway, this is what schools have become and I'm sad that my children can't have the same education/experience that I had.

.Debbie

It seems this is controllable in the officials eyes. They put up a blind-eye when it comes to drugs and alcohol

Where in the article does it say they are ignoring drugs and alcohol issues?

"voiceofcommonsense"

I don't know what school was like when you were a kid, but when I was in school, we knew the rules, knew the consequences, and teachers typically stuck to their guns with the punishments. That's all that happened here. So what, back in your day, you could do whatever you wanted as long as it was "sweet" and "harmless?"

I guess back in your day, people didn't sue over falling off a ladder on school property after hours. Well they do now. So the rules have adapted in an attempt to prevent it. Don't blame the schools, blame yourselves.

Education, morals and values are not taught nowadays. As long as these officials get a paycheck it's not going to change!

I am in my 50's and I remember the school environment as one where every effort was made to control the students and try and force them to conform. This was supposedly "for our own good" but was actually just an exercise in attempted control by an obsessive, impotent faculty.

I remember male students getting 1 to 3 day suspensions for having long hair. We accepted the holidays from school and none of us got haircuts. These days we hear about the young guys getting suspensions from school for shaving their heads or having symbols or slogans buzzed into a brush cut! The schools don't really care about the hair, it's just an excuse to bully young people and force them all into the same mould so they will be good little sheep, rather than teaching kids to be creative individuals.

Most (but not all) teachers are those who cannot "do" so they teach. They are sad impotent people who will never do much of interest in life. They vent their frustration at the sad futility of their existence by trying to turn young people into the same sort of wretched excuse for a human being that they became, probably due to the diligent efforts of the supposed teachers that they themselves had to endure.

The bright, lively teachers who encourage students to be individuals have always been exceptions and are treasures beyond compare. I had but a few such teachers during my school years and I admired them more than they could ever imagine. All power to the real teachers of this world and a short career and a quick demise to the dull witted fools whose finest aspiration is to generate more dull witted fools like themselves.

.Debbie

Education, morals and values are not taught nowadays. As long as these officials get a paycheck it's not going to change!

Education starts at home there Debbie with manners, morals and ethics.

I see it every day and from what I can see - parents are the problem more often than teachers are.

Mike's completely right. How are they going to learn morals and values if rule-breaking never has consequences?

And Jherek, there are good reasons for not allowing symbols and slogans shaved into hair, or not allowing shaved heads. Or gang colors, for that matter. If you want me to explain, let me know, but common sense should explain it for you. Not that I'm seeing a lot of that around today.

" ... if rule-breaking never has consequences?"

Will any consequences do, or is there a distinction between "any" and "appropriate" consequences. ie, will you allow that appropriate consequences are more effective or preferable than the other? Then we must move to "appropriate" and "effective". Since you are implying that the consequences are for the purpose of instructing morals and values, does it matter if the instructee perceives them as appropriate or effective, or is it enough that their conclusion/acceptance of the moral/value is imposed by external force rather than by their own determination. Indeed is one preferred in any way to the other? From which might resentment arise, if either, and in any event do you start with either as the first didactic step? Which might work, or have worked in your own childhood, best for you?

I am soooooo glad none of you were my parents. The punishment should fit the crime. He wasn't even suspended for real. IN-SCHOOL suspension. Order and rules should be in place, IF they make sense.

Congratulations to your "teachers" Mr. or Ms. Ghostcoon. You proved my point superbly by showing how they managed to mould you into another good sheep who worships the rules at the expense of individuality and creativity.

Jherek Carnelian

Congratulations to your "teachers" Mr. or Ms. Ghostcoon. You proved my point superbly by showing how they managed to mould you into another good sheep who worships the rules at the expense of individuality and creativity.

You can have your individuality and creativity - Ill take discipline and intelligence any day of the week (both of which are lacking these days).

All four of those qualities are valuable Mike. They are especially valuable when they are in a good balance in both individuals and groups of individuals.

The Nazis were disciplined and intelligent you know but with a good helping of individuality they wouldn't have been a group of robots marching to the will of Hitler.

And I for one will definitely keep my individuality and creativity. I will surrender it to no-one to be a good conforming sheep who can only do and believe what he is told.

Actual mike the issue is

You can have your individuality and creativity - Ill take discipline and intelligence any day of the week (both of which are lacking these days).

People with a combination of all four go far and people with just the last two end up hating all the others

Right on Wolften!!

Ghostcoon:

I would like to say I have all 4. Morals and Values are learned through love and lessons. Not always fear. And just because 5 people sat down and wrote a law or a rule or a constitution, doesn't mean that the law or rule or whatever, is right! I can think of a few laws that make nooooooo sense. But they're written, meaning I have to follow them? Negative. I don't jump just because someone says so. For all I know, I'm jumping off of a bridge. How about the law that says "It is illegal to die in the House of Parliaments"? I mean, really? You would enforce that how...? It's just to have something written on paper to rule people. I believe in discipline, I believe that most kids ARE selfish and spoiled and lazy, and alot of parents SUCK at being parents. The law is part of what made our kids lazy. Child labor laws. They shouldn't be slaved but they should learn hard work and the value of a dollar. But some dummy sat down and said they can't work until they're sixteen so they can go to school and learn nothing of real relevance to the world. The law said they get the entire summer off. What! So now they are unsupervised, with nothing to do all day! These are the laws you are so eager to follow. I work in schools from time to time and I see the kids play fighting, cursing at each other, and the teachers for that matter, and just being downright disrespectful. I would think playfighting on school grounds is a serious liabilty. Very easy for someone to get hurt, or even for it to escalate. No one day suspensions or prom bans were issued. Which is worse? So with your intelligence, discipline, and lack of compassion, you are mad and miserable. Your hopeful prom date must've gone with the non-conforming, creative individual

I agree Tina. Unfortunately, this school, as so many others in the U.S. have lost their common sense. What's happening to our U.S. Educational structure?The punishment is truly a negative response. How could anyone possibly see wrong with the honestly romantic invitation to the prom? And yes, they should hold such punishments for those who bully and torment other students in our schools. Clearly, the decision to ban him from the prom should be reversed, a personal apology be given to him by the "Head Mistress" for over stepping/abusing her position.

Unfortunately in this day and age rules and punishment aren't about correcting behavior. People just like to punish for the sake of making someone else miserable. I feel like I'm living in a dark age, despite the highest level of technology this world has seen.

The older I get the more I realize just how senseless human beings really are, and the Internet has shown me this more than any other medium.

I don't think anyone denies that this kid was trying to be nice. But he did it the wrong way, breaking the law and the school rules, and he's paying the price. Your "let them do whatever they want" attitude is frightening. Really, honestly, terrifying. So many of you don't want there to be consequences for bad choices. No matter his intentions, this was a bad choice. It was dangerous and broke the rules.

Kids in the high schools where I work like to say "rules were meant to be broken." I tell them that's a short-sighted view of life, but if they really believe it, just remind themselves of that when someone robs them or runs a read light and hits them. I wonder how they could be so foolish as to think that anarchy is better than the rule of law.

Now, with 95% of their parents on here saying the same thing, I know why. And that's what will lead to your "dark age" zaxxon, not teachers and schools trying to enforce the rules.

Actual kids are learning that paticuler bad idea from elected officals and CEO of compinies

Ghost and many of you miss the point, was it wrong, yes but why does the degree of wrongness change after April 1st?

It is the inconsistent application of rules and the overreach on punishment that frustrates and causes backlash. To make her point, the educator cites a "safety" issue, really? What would that be? Cardboard danger? Why April 1st? If doen in March he could have gone to the prom? For all their learnedness, some teachers are pretty dumb.

Ghost, I hate to resort to name calling, but only a pure and utter moron would defend a black and white rule without any consideration of the circumstances. Damn sheep, that's all you people are. You think life is black and white and it's not. It's gray a heck of a lot more often than it's black and white. If you haven't figured that out by now there's just no hope for you.

People like you make me physically ill. You're a scourge on our world.

Julie, OH MY! No more following the rules? ie toeing the line. What would make this ok/ No rules for whom? So everyone is now entitled to climb the school and tag it anyway they see fit. Or only well spoken articulate students? As a Mother of many children over the last 30 years, my own, Foster children, Daycare children. Rules and guide lines must be firm with consequenses. Sure they could make an exception for this very nice boy and this very nice girl and then a president is set. IF they had kept this off the internet and home where it belonged the school could have possibly made an exception. No more.

Exactly.

If this kid is allowed to go to the prom, other kids will follow his example. Then when one of them dies or is paralyzed from a fall from the ladder, there will be a HUGE lawsuit. This kid was wearing a helmet, so by his very admission he was performing an inherently dangerous act. As if a helmet would prevent him from breaking his neck!

He deliberately broke the rules, knowing there would be consequences. Now he thinks he can get a bunch of teeny boppers to make an outcry and change the administrators' minds. I sincerely hope the school stands their ground.

Ghost and many of you miss the point, was it wrong, yes but why does the degree of wrongness change after April 1st?

Does this remind anyone else of how we used to feel as young children - that we had to start behaving right before Christmas so that Santa Claus would bring us our presents? Didn't matter if we were holy terrors the rest of the year, as long as we were angels in the month of December. This whole idea of being banned from prom ONLY if you're suspended after April 1 makes just as much sense.

Ghost and many of you miss the point, was it wrong, yes but why does the degree of wrongness change after April 1st?

It is the inconsistent application of rules and the overreach on punishment that frustrates and causes backlash. To make her point, the educator cites a "safety" issue, really? What would that be? Cardboard danger? Why April 1st? If doen in March he could have gone to the prom? For all their learnedness, some teachers are pretty dumb.

The goosesteppers aren't getting this fact. It's the policy that's bad. The students are no longer 5 & Santa's not coming to town. It's nonsensical that a kid could conceivably cause bodily harm to another student on March 31st & yet still be permitted to attend prom, while a kid who tapes up a cardboard sign on April 1st can't.

And please don't insult the teachers of this schl by calling them "dumb". It's one idiot administrator who is attempting to enforce her inconsistent disciplinary policies who is the problem, not the teachers.