Bless this lady's heart.... TEACHER OF THE YEAR and one student, one huge obviously obnoxious student, has put this teacher and all her accomplishments- all the students she has blessed- in a terrible position. It is a shame that students are allowed to have the power they have obtained.
To the TEACHER: Hold your head up, do your job and continue to love, bless and be blessed by the worthy students in your life.... don't let a bad one or two spoil your blessing for my child : )
From: A high school teacher in rural Texas
#1 - Mon Jun 6, 2011 9:26 AM EDTWhen our school systems start to question whether a 64 year old female school teacher, or a teacher of any age is not alloweed to defend themself against a bully, then our society has agreed to a set of standards that will drive our confidence in our schools to a further depth of disfunction than they are now.
I absolutely think she had the right to defend herself, however she is not completely innocent. It seems there is more to this story to - the events leading up to it, it seemed she instigated a bit. She called the student stupid? THAT deserves some sort of punishment or disciplinary action. A teacher has no business calling a student stupid, but that doesn't justify the student's actions. She had a right to defend herself, but the kid didn't raise a hand - I think she may of overreacted.
Agreed. If teachers can't defend themselves because they are at school, or because the defense is against a minor, then we are basically giving kids our permission to abuse any teacher or adult they want to. Im not going to agree with anything like that at all. If kids think they're so tough to approach and challenge an adult, they better be ready for the repercussion.
Exactly, and it's for this very reason why I believe the art teacher was justified for her actions. As far as I'm concerned, she (and every other teacher in the world) is there to teach, not to have to babysit, and as soon as a student starts to act out of line in that way, that student should be out of that classroom. What's happening here is we're telling kids that they have more rights than the teachers do, and that is therefore giving them the idea that they can do whatever they want in school, which makes the jobs of the teachers that much harder. Who is going to want to teach when it gets so bad that teachers are getting physically abused in school, with severe repercussions if such people try to fight back? I think this world needs to be injected with some good old-fashioned discipline once again, to make an example of students who would just as soon punch a teachers' lights out than obey his or her guidelines.
CalifGina, I don't recall reading that they arrested her for calling the kid stupid. At any rate, what did she say, exactly? Did she call him stupid, or did she say that he was acting stupidly? There IS a difference. I didn't hear either way.
If this had been a student, the student would have been expelled. He did not lay a hand on her, she over reacted to his intimidating her. Children who are bullied are not allowed to protect themselves in school or fight back, why should teachers be allowed. Ask any parent of a child who has been bullied and they try to defend themselves, they are the ones in trouble, more so than the bully. This is part of the problem with schools today. They tell the child to walk away and tell a teacher, why couldn't she walk away? Perhaps this incident will evoke more thought on the plight of bullied children and teachers and allow both to protect themselves. That said, I don't think she should be fired, but reprimanded yes.
bmx mom, while we're making comparisons, let's remember that this is the teacher's place of employment. All other employees have the right to a safe work environment, to defend themselves if they are assulted, and to press charges against their attacker. Are you saying that teachers give up these rights? The real problem with schools today is that all kids have a right to go there, no matter how they act.
No, I'm not saying a teacher gives up these rights, but why do they make students? Don't they have a right to defend themselves? It all depends on the states laws. Here they have them written that they have to hit you first, and that if there is any possible way to leave and you don't, then it is not self defence. As a principle explained it to me, unless they are in a corner, or are completely surrounded and not permitted to leave, then they are not allowed to hit back even if they are hit first. I don't know if this pertains to the teachers, or just the students. This incident is a good way to get the subject out there though for both student and teacher safety. If the students know a teacher, or another student is allowed to defend themselves, there would be less bullying. Rules have tied the hands of the vulnerable, not the bullies.
bmx mom, I understand that the State Attorney's office investigated and concluded that the video only showed a portion of what happened. The other students in class corroborated the teacher's version by saying that she was, indeed, being threatened. (Following your statement - she was vulnerable!) The SA's office dropped the charges against her and by doing so said she did not do anything legally wrong. I don't think she over-reacted - he backed her up against a wall and was bumping into her and threatening her. It's time for teachers to have the authority they need to take care of students in the first place so it never goes here!
Jeebs - You can hear the students in the video and it is also in their statements and referenced in the article.
One student can be heard in the background saying, "He didn't do anything. You can't punch him in the face. You can't even call him stupid.''
In the video; enable subtitles and you actually hear "you can't call him stupid" instead of "you can't even..." Again, not saying I condone the kid's actions at all and whatever she may of said or not said does not make it okay for him to react the way he did. But I am interested in how we got into this situation, what got him so upset? What's his side of the story and was he punished?
You are right that a lot of details are missing. But it is obvious the prosecutor believed her and the other students that supported her claim. The girl in the back ground is most likely a smart-ass who thinks kids can do or saying anything with immunity based upon their status. Keep in mind the words he used were stupid. We can infer that he said those things or the students would call-out the teacher.
If she had called him stupid (probably because he was acting stupid), then it was a LOT better than the vulgar names he was calling her. It was warranted.
I think that all teachers have the right to be able to defend themselves, and come on!! The kid was obviously much younger and taller than her. She's 64 years old. By saying that she should be punished would mean advocating students to abuse older adults too, not just teachers. You shouldn't allow kids to disrespect the older population. She's not there to babysit the dumb kid (in which case, his parents should be totally embarrassed and ashamed of him). She's there to teach!! Whatever happened to "respecting your elders"?..
The kid should have been expelled for threatening the teacher. It was good on her to stand up for herself. No teacher should put up with this crap.
Agreed. While I think she had the right to defend herself, I do think she overreacted; the student didn't raise a hand - I think it could of been resolved differently. But the prosecutor has all the facts, statements and viewpoints so I trust that he/she made the right decision. My concern is that I don't think the teacher is completely off the hook or as innocent as everyone is making her out to be. Something instigated that situation and I think THAT is where some punishment/disciplinary action may be in order for the teacher. But again, whatever she said or did would never justify the student threatening her with violence.
I agree 199%. What is tis boy going to grow up to act like. Is he going to hit Mom when he doesnt get his way or if his wife isnt submissive what will e do to her. The boy is the one who needs to be punished and taught how to respect his elders and people in authority positions. What is our world going to be like when children like this grow up and become adults?
All the folks here using "he didn't raise his hands" as a defense for the student are failing to grasp a very important point. It does not matter where his hands were. The student initiated a threatening physical contact with the teacher. This contact resulted in the teacher feeling fear for her personal safety. That is textbook self defense justification even without knowing what the student was saying. Just because she is a teacher, she does not surreder her legal rights. If anything, it makes what the student did worse.
As for her getting her job back, that is a more difficult situation. Teachers are held (rightly or wrongly) to a higher moral standard that the rest of the population. Many teachers have lost their positions for doing things that they have to legal right to do (posing in a nude magazine is an excellent example). Retaining her position is a choice for the local school board, and is based on what they perceive to be their own community's local moral values. I can see valid arguments on both sides of the issue. Even if the public school system decides not to bring her back, she can probably get a position in a private school fairly easily.
The student called the teacher a c**t in the middle of class. For that alone she should of knocked out his teeth.
CalifGina, it's actually a moot point, but I never disputed what the female student said. We do not hear the teacher actually call the student stupid. She may very well have said "Stop acting stupid". This female student, who may have been texting or something at the time, hears the word "stupid" out of context, and voila! Out comes "you can't call him stupid". Just saying.
Disagree on it being moot point, if it actually happened. A teacher ridiculing students is not to be taken lightly. A person in a position of trust, should not be verbally abusive to minors. Warrants looking into...just saying
Having a Masters in Leadership (administration) and teaching for 23 years in a Texas school district, I have been in the same type of situation. The district does not support teachers who are threatened by students. Not only do teachers suffer from verbal abuse, but emotionally disturbed students are mainstreamed into regular classes often without adult aides to accompany them. This situation can create for the teacher and for the student a potentially dangerous scenario. Teenagers by nature are loaded with hormones and do not always make the best choices on how to handle their feelings. I have had students who came from home angry at their home life, parents, friends, etc. explode in the classroom because of a seemingly insignificant comment from myself or other students. Once the student calms down, they admit to overreacting. However, during the event, the student is often unreasonable and uncontrollable. Some students gain control, some do not. It just depends.
#3 - Mon Jun 6, 2011 9:42 AM EDTNot having an aide for a student with emotional disturbance issues in a regular classroom is dangerous- and possibly against the law, as it often means their educational needs are not being met. If you cannot function in a regular classroom environment without that aide, then the school is required to provide one- but often don't unless sued. It puts everyone at risk. Not training teachers to address situations and students with emotional disturbance- especially if you are an art teacher and may not even know who your ED kids are- is also dangerous, yet often ignored by school districts. Training costs money.
As a former junior high art teacher I can attest that students would be mainstreamed into art classes with no thought of giving the art teacher any information on the student's needs, learning abilities, or heads up about potential problems. It wasn't until the child is standing up in the middle of class and totally disrupting instruction that I knew there was something they didn't tell me. Don't know this student's background but I totally feel for the teacher. It is heartbreaking to have her reputation and job put on the line for defending herself against someone bigger and stronger. No teacher should be put in that position after dedicating one's life to the youth of America.
Having a Masters in Leadership (administration) and teaching for 23 years in a Texas school district, I have been in the same type of situation. The district does not support teachers who are threatened by students. Not only do teachers suffer from verbal abuse, but emotionally disturbed students are mainstreamed into regular classes often without adult aides to accompany them. This situation can create for the teacher and for the student a potentially dangerous scenario. Teenagers by nature are loaded with hormones and do not always make the best choices on how to handle their feelings. I have had students who came from home angry at their home life, parents, friends, etc. explode in the classroom because of a seemingly insignificant comment from myself or other students. Once the student calms down, they admit to overreacting. However, during the event, the student is often unreasonable and uncontrollable. Some students gain control, some do not. It just depends.
#4 - Mon Jun 6, 2011 9:42 AM EDTHere's my issue with this for several reasons: The teacher had an exit door right behind her to leave the situation and get the proper authorities, in-fact there were two doors. Teachers also have phones in every room to call to the front. Schools usually have on site police to handle these things also. She is also an adult and is considered to be a professional and should have handled the situation differently...The student never raised his hands to her in attack mode, hit her etc. She stated in the interview that she had never had an altercation with this student before. His actions did not warrant a full on assault from the teacher. I think she over stepped her boundries by calling the teen names and then striking him not once but twice, the teen still didn't hit her back.
Teachers and or schools, are constantly reprimanding not only the bully at schools but also the student who defends themselves equally in most cases. Stating that they should have walked away from the situation and sought help....... This is constantly being used against students who choose to defend themselves, that violence is not a solution....How hypocritical is that?
What kind of mixed signal or we sending here?
He had her backed up in the door frame trapped. She had no exit. Do you know where that door went? Maybe a dark storage room? Do you know if the door was locked? The other door or the phone wasn't assessable. He had her trapped. I work in a juvenile correctional facility and kids can be very dangerous. This lady was trapped and scared. In that situation you get tunnel vision, panic and can't think clearly. Believe me you can train for this stuff and still can't think straight when it happens. Any of us can Monday morning quarterback this thing to death. She didn't have the luxury of watching the video over and over like clearly you did.
Hey, Vinni: This teacher reacted to another individual's decision to assult her. You want to question someone's actions? Question the attacker's, not the reactor's. It's high time for Teachers in this country to band together against school policies that prohibit them from defending themselves against assult.
Vinni...you have a very obtuse way to looking at this situation. Obviously you have experience. But this teacher will be collecting a large check from the school district for her fully justified actions if the school does not give her job back. They are sending the wrong signal. Your comments do reflect a sad state of life in the classroom. Totally not appropriate. If you were the teacher, I am sure you would have done much the same or worse, especially if you had been a woman with no other options. I really wonder why the student is not taken out of the school and the teacher put back into the school. There must be something going on that is not getting reported. Does daddy possibly have some pull with the administration? It is all pathetic, but she is 100% justified and does need to get her job back.
OK........An "Assault," as defined by Florida law, is an intentional, unlawful threat by word or act to do violence to another person, coupled with an apparent ability to do so, and doing some act which creates a well-founded fear that violence is imminent.
School policies vary on actions that can be taken as a faculty member on students in all aspects......so it's really up to the school since the state finds in her favor that an assault took place......
“I was afraid because of the look in his face. It was very vicious and violent-looking, but I’ve been teaching all these years, [and] I never assumed that he would attack me. But he just came on and chest-bumped me.’’
According to her, there WAS physical contact. I don't know how you can expect her to get help if she is cornered against a wall. If you want to blame someone other than the attacker, then blame the students watching this assault who should have gotten the school's security involved, rather than just watching this poor woman getting bullied by a big student.
I think Vinni was pointing out the double standard schools have. The teacher has a right to defend herself, but if a student were to do the same thing, there would be zero tolerance for that, and the student would be punished. I know, I have been there with my own child. No matter the situation, they always assume the child was able to just walk away and tell someone.
bmx mon: "...the teacher has a right to defend herself,..." Does she? Our society has generally stripped teachers of their right to protect themselves. Many teachers know of colleagues who have been seriously injured by aggressive students. If there is in-fact a problem with a double-standard in our schools, it should not be used to allow allow a child to disrespect and/or assult an adult. Could it be that you believe that this teacher has somehow paid for the punishment that your child 'unjustly' received?
No, I do not think she has paid for my child's punishment. The problem is rules that can be too restrictive and no flexibility to take the circumstances of the incident into account. This affects not only teachers, but students as well. Violence in school is getting terrible and something needs to be done for all their safety, but what?
I do agree that zero-tolerance rules don't work, and that violence in schools is out of hand, but punishing a teacher for defending herself against an aggressor is a big step in the wrong direction. Regardless of what their 'policies' may be, school systems are notorious for attempting to hide issues such as bullying because it can adversely affect their accreditation scores. This is a problem with the system, not the teacher. Either way, though, teachers to not deserve to be assaulted anymore than we do.
Pushed up against a door he leans right into her face and she is suppose to open the door behind her, that would be a Jackie Chan move. Her reaction was instinctual. You can only hope when you are attacked you will have the same instinct. Running from an animal usaully produces a bad result.
The doors behind her are push open doors........she's also an adult...I don't think she acted like one......
Now, if he took a swing at her etc......then yes by all means defend yourself but he did not do that....she could have left the room at anytime...he wasnt restraining her from doing that.....she was standing her ground like most kids do and provoking him into further rage...just like kids do and are disciplined for doing so.
Many school districts will fire a teacher for leaving them unattended. It is drilled into teachers over and over. You CAN NOT leave the classroom. Also, she should not have to leave HER classroom. Her BACK was to the door. Did she know it was there? Think of your 64 year old mother being backed up by a BIG TALL guy.
My son was in that classroom during the altercation. He is the boy in the video who grabs the kid after she hits him. Vinni- let me clarify something: that door that you see behind her was locked from the other side. She had no where to go!
That video that they keep showing doesn't even come close to what actually happened. Those weren't even her students! That is my son's culinary arts class and she was just being kind and letting the students into class. He was licking the glass door and when she asked him to clean it with a paper towel, he became beligerant. Who licks a window at high school age anyway? Years ago, this would not have even been an issue. If I would have done what he did, not only would I have been paddled by the teacher, I would have gotten a beaten when I got home from my parents! My son said he had no respect for her at all!
You have to look at her character vs his. A 22+ year teacher with no other complaints would ruin her career just because she felt like hitting a kid? My son said she was clearly frightened of him. She acted in self defense. We moved here from Long Island, NY 7 years ago and I will tell you that the teachers here are wonderful despite the rumors that Florida schools/teachers are incompetent. I am a proud mom of a Central High School student who helped protect a scared woman. Give her back her job!!!!!!
ProudMom@CentralHigh, thank you for taking the time to provide this information. I'd be proud, too!
ProudMom, you should definitely be proud. Most of the other students probably didn't just watch because they're voyeurs but because they were afraid to step in or snitch (get help)--every kid knows the phrase "snitches get stitches." The fact that your son braved standing up for the teacher against someone who had clearly crossed the line of rational behavior and could easily turn on him--even if they were friends--shows you have taught him better than the others. Thank you!
Outraged: thanks for the kind words. My son said that the kid continuously disrupts the culinary arts class and the teacher( that mind you was in the classroom when her fellow co worker was being verbally attacked and did nothing about it) is afraid of him too! My son is not friends with this kid and is glad he is gone!
Jeebs: thanks! he's a really good kid and he doesn't care what other kids think. He was raised with RESPECTING his elders!
Give this Teacher of the Year her job back. Teachers are so under paid and with the lack of support from her school is sad. I speak as a parent and have seen students in a class act as such as I was visiting my daughters class in high school. Students are rude to the teachers and there is no support from the school or parents. The education system has been a sad case for years, if the system don't change its going to get worse.
#6 - Mon Jun 6, 2011 10:10 AM EDTI'm also a proud educated parent of two teen boys and while I do have to admit that some kids aren't very well behaved and misguided among other things, as an adult I have witnessed my share of more then a few bad apples teaching our kids, and this has been in steller performing schools I might add. Taking into account that this teacher received teacher of the year etc.. is awesome but after reviewing the tape with audio and her own statements several times...she had ample opportunity to leave the situation and seek help to mitigate the outcome.
Dwindling rights of teachers is one thing that causes good teachers to leave the system. Bad apples? Your type want it both ways. You want Teachers to be held to a higher standard than everyone else, but your views are the very thing that keep many potential Teachers out of the classroom. Teachers need to start suing school districts for not providing a safe working environment, a right afforded to everyone else.
after watching the video without audio, I determined that the student was infact threatening. there fore the teacher seems to defend herself. the teacher may had been backed off to a corner with no escape than she acted in self defence and had done the right thing. And the student, perhaps subjected to a verbal abuse at home, may had reacted to a statement, by either the teacher or a class-mate not directly offensive to him, with accessive force and over aggressive.
#7 - Mon Jun 6, 2011 10:11 AM EDTWhat has happened in our schools since the 50 plus years I attended? The world seems to have been turned upside down. In my days in public schools, the student would have been punished and suspended. The teacher would have been given total support. These students, like the one in the video, are bullies. "You can't touch him", cries a student. They know their teachers have no power to control them. No wonder our public schools in many areas are a disgrace. The school boards must be controlled by the 10 percent who voted against this teacher in your straw poll.
#8 - Mon Jun 6, 2011 10:39 AM EDTyes! and we need to go back to those days! The world is a crazy place right now.
I remember being punished at school, then punished again at home for my actions at school. Bullies were expelled so the rest of us could learn without fear. The principal was no one to push around. Thank God I was taught to take responsibility for my actions, and thank God my parents & teachers gave me guidelines to live by. They made me a good person, and a value to society as a whole.
As for the young MAN bullying his teacher...he should be expelled, arrested for assault, and taught a valuable lesson.
Jodie, I second that!!!
At no time should a student EVER be allowed to act in such a manner as we have seen in the video!
Heck these days even parents can be arrested for defending themselves or for trying to discipline their children.
This is why our crime rates are higher than 20 years ago and why the average age of 1st time violent offenders is around 15. 15!!!!
Hear, hear, Jodie!! I, too would get in trouble at home if I ever got in trouble at school. My mother was fond of saying, "Not everyone can get straight A's, but everyone can behave."
If my dad had heard that I had threatened a teacher, I would have gotten my behind kicked. The kid's parents should be very ashamed of themselves. There should be investigation on his parents considering the circumstances.
She should get her job back. She had never been disciplined in her career and the one time she is in a situation where a student was obviously threatening her, she's punished. She's a victim.
Whatever happened to respecting your elders?.. The youth today after my generation have no respect for adults.
Vinni apparently thinks men or boys should act this way toward women, his elders, and a person in an authority position that doesnt give him his way. This child needs help before he seriously hurts someone or kills them. So if Mom ground this boy he has all rights to cold cock her in your eyes, is that what you are trying to say here. That door may not have helped this teacher at all. She was an outstanding teacher who now has lost everything she worked for because one boy who was alot bigger then her didnt get his way. This boy is abusive and out of control without help he will wind up abusing is wife and his children in the futire. What will the world be like when teens like him become adults. You may find yourself in this position one day because you are older and not in as good of shape as a teenager such as this. How are you going to feel?
I'd be interested in finding our how this young man acts while he is at home with his family. Particularly if he has a mother as a single parent and if he has younger siblings
#9 - Mon Jun 6, 2011 10:51 AM EDTWhat is wrong with the students today? No respect for our Teachers. The student should be expelled and sent home. Maybe Alternative Education is the way to go for him. If he cannot function in a normal classroom setting then out he goes, not the Teacher. I could not believe how he kept backing into her. You are nothing but a bullie and coward and he needs to realize he isnt in charge!
What do you all expect? Didn't you hear the students in the video? "You can't do that!!!" This is what our society is teaching them. Respect for teachers by students MUST start at home.
Jeebs, the sad thing is many of the kids that act this way get very little attention, discipline, or care that need at home and apparently school and society arent teaching them any different. This teacher has been punished and lost her career, her retirement, and all she has worked hard for for most of her life for doing the right thing and the only thing she could do to defend herself and what has the boy got. Oh poor babies and pity whereas he is the one who needed correction and help before he hurts someone's daughter or worse kills someone because he didnt get his way.
4kids, I agree with you that many kids act this way due to the lack of parenting at home. Sad thing is that these "parents" are the most likely to fight the teacher's efforts to fill the gap.
As a classroom aide, I have been pushed, hit, spit on and kicked by students who are out of control. And I work in an ELEMENTARY school. I can't imagine having a male high school student come at me...I honestly have to say I would have reacted the same way. And as for the door behind her, I'm sure she wasn't even thinking of that, she was very scared. I would also like to mention that not every classroom has phones, or a way of contacting the office for help. I send another student from the classroom. Just as someone else said, these students are fully aware that we "can't touch them" so they know they can act out violently and there's nothing we can do short of restraining (of which I was trained so as not to hurt the student) them until someone else arrives to help. This HS student was obviously trying to intimidate her, and he is old enough to realize for every action there is a consequence. He intimidated and she punched him. If he were my son, I'd say he had earned it.
#10 - Mon Jun 6, 2011 11:17 AM EDTIf he had been my child he would have been told the same thing after I punished him to the fullest and made him apologize publicly to this teacher, the class, and anyone else who was involved or witnessed this little scene. Then I would have gotten him some help with his attitude and I would have fought for this teacher and done all I could to help her keep her job.
The teacher should of thrown one more jab at him! The student was out of line! Regardless of it being a student/teacher incident... you do not put someone up against a wall and not expect them to retaliate in hopes of getting away. This is a natural instinct- animals do the same thing... even the most timid animal will fight back once it has no where else to go!
My 14 daughter and 12 year old son were watching with me and thought that the student had it coming too!
Hope the teacher gets to return back to work soon! Next school year maybe?
#11 - Mon Jun 6, 2011 11:27 AM EDTShe was defending herself. Why is it that bad behaviour always get the most attenttion. In my days teachers had the right to discipline. If it was my son when he came home it would have been another beating.
#12 - Mon Jun 6, 2011 11:35 AM EDTI work in the school system as a teacher and have seen many teachers abuse their position and authority. This teacher was not demonstrating self-control, but from what I see in the video, she thought she was going to provoke the student verbally and keep provoking until she got what she wanted. She should have known better and called for help or left the room and gotten help. She acted like a bully and I see this way too much with teachers that have taught for a long time. The attitude is, if I provoke or upset the kids, so what, I'm the boss. The boy was clearly angry and provoked, but, he's not fully grown yet and kids are highly emotional in their responses. This teacher shows that she had about as much self-control as the student. She wasn't trying to resolve the conflict, but she escalated it, and now she wants to have approval for being out of control when she was provoked. No way, I would lose my job if I punched someone.
#13 - Mon Jun 6, 2011 11:58 AM EDTAre you a small framed lady of any age being bared down upon by a close to 200 pound fit teenage boy? Apparently you and Vinny would feel it is okay for this to happen to your mother, wife, or daughter.
Please read my previous post! My son was in the class and saw the whole thing. He is the boy in the video who grabs the kids after she hits him- She was so scared! Just read my post- it's from a witness' standpoint!
This isn't black and white. Teachers have the same right to a safe work environment as the students due to a safe learning environment. The problem here is how do you define an appropriate response to this situation, when it depends entirely on the context and case-by-case basis, much like police and "excessive force".
Personally, I don't fault a 64 year old woman for throwing a punch at an aggressive male student in self-defense. The majority of high school aged boys will be bigger and stronger than the majority of 64 year-old women. In this case the actions were justified. Where it gets challenging is if you were to change the context. I am a 30 year old man, 5'11, 200 lbs, work out regularly, and am relatively fit. If I were put in that same situation, I would expect to get in serious trouble for punching an unarmed student in the face for any reason (emphasis on unarmed, if he has a knife or gun - different story). That said, I would also expect to reserve my right to self-defense should I be attacked by a student. I would expect to be able to push, wrestle, grab, or in some way subdo and restrain a violent student with the minimum amount of force necessary. My point, is that the amount of force necessary varies with the physical abilities of the victim and assailant. I don't think this woman was out of line at all, and a single punch to the face in this scenario was not excessive, but how and where do you draw the line? How do you set the precedent? Food for thought.
#14 - Mon Jun 6, 2011 12:15 PM EDTRight said. Everyone here needs to imagine that it is THEIR 64 year old mother feeling assalted and up against that wall. What would you tell her to do?
Interestingly, if you were a tall, fit male teacher in that situation, you probably wouldn't be in that situation. The student would know you could lay him out, and would probably have acted accordingly.
Joeymom - you're probably right there, but you never know. Any student who attacks a teacher is at least a little bit crazy, and crazy people are unpredictable and do irrational things.... like potentially attack people bigger than them.
Expatgirl - If it were my mother, or any woman that age for that matter, I would tell her to do exactly what this teacher did. I think she was justified in her actions. The problem is, what precedent would be set by letting her off scott free. What happens when a similar situation happens, but the force is a little more excessive, or it happens to a teacher who should be able to resolve that situation with less force? Unfortunately, in our society, people who act justly and in self-defense are often punished for it, because examples need to be set. I'm not saying I agree with this, or that it should happen to this teacher, but that's the world we live in. Once something happens, it usually happens again in similar, but not identical, fashion. I'm just concerned about how the handling of this will affect the situation next time.
Thank you! I agree, our schools need to get back to the day when students were disciplined for bad behaviour. There is no respect in our schools and very little in our homes. Kids know their "rights" and use that knowledge to get away with murder.
#15 - Mon Jun 6, 2011 12:24 PM EDTI have seen teachers do the same thing to students that your describing not to do, putting their hands on them and backing them up against the walls but if they try and defend themselves.... it's seen as assault...it's a catch 22.
#16 - Mon Jun 6, 2011 12:33 PM EDTSo, this teacher has to allow herself to be assulted because there are some teachers somewhere who have assulted students? Take the rights away from an innocent person because of the actions of a few? If you are ever assulted by someone, I'm sure you wouldn't like to have your rights determined by how many of his profession were assulted by someone else.
Vinni- It is obvious, this teen is in the wrong! She was defending herself for sure! She had the right to do so. He was a big boy and knew exactly what he was doing! Shame on him!
Here is what you are failing to see Vini...if the Student had stayed in his seat where he belonged then none of this would have happened. His body language was clearly threating. She had every right to defend herself!
I agree...if he would have behaved none of this would have happened, and he did bring this on but I hardly agree that she made the right decision to hit him...He is still a child, a big one, but still a child and she is an adult that should know better... and he wasn't hitting her or restraining her. I think the way she was acting was offensive not defensive... I think in the end she really wanted to hit him because the way he verbally abused her etc... There was ample time and opportunity for her to seek help with the student before all this happened. Thats the real issue here! She could have got the proper help to deal with this....not that the kid was acting badly and deserved what he got.......
Please keep in mind, we do not see what occurred before the portion of the video that was shown. We do not know who escalated the situation or if the teacher did make attempt to calm the situation or not.
I have taught for many years, and I suspect many of you would be shocked by the type of violence that is perpetutated against teachers and students by some out of control bullies who are allowed to get away with it because school systems do not want to "look bad" and have to report such incidents.
I personally have been choked, stabbed with scissors and pencils, kicked, punched, bitten, slapped and hit over the head with a chair; and I teach elementary children! I have never used physical violence against a child, but I will step in to try and stop a child from hurting themselves or someone else, which is how several of these incidents occurred. None of the children who attacked me were ever disciplined beyond a talking to by administration, because anything more would mean an "incident report" and the potential loss of funding tied to school discipline records.
Society as a whole is allowing teachers to be disrepected and maligned in the media, and we are suprised that children reflect this attitude? Yes, teachers should do all they can to maintain control without getting physical, but that doesn't mean we should be treated as punching bags! Schools need to provide safe learning environments for their students, but also safe working environments for their teachers! It cannot be conducive to learning to watch either your fellow students, or your teachers be threatened and bullied!
I saw the portion of the tape and in that portion it showed her clearly acting in self defense. No, a teacher should never strike a student but a student should never strike a teacher either. Students like this, is why teachers have given up in the school systems and become such poor teachers now. It is up to us the parents to be parents and teacher our kids and not be afraid to ask for help if we can't handle situations with our children. I would think that this incident would prompt teachers and schools all over the US to come up with ways to prevent teachers from having to hit students. Whether its some type of Karate move to just be able to grab the student and hold them until help arrives or methods to diffuse the situation but someone needs to come up with something or things will ONLY get worse.
#17 - Mon Jun 6, 2011 12:43 PM EDTFor all of those who disagree with this womans right to defend herself, do you have sons? I for one, do; he is only 10 and he knows better than to threaten someone. This is a 64 year old woman we are talking about, this boy had at least a foot on her! If my son EVER had the nerve to back a woman into a corner with that kind of threatening behavior, I would kick his butt myself! There is NO excuse for this boy to physically impose himself on that teacher, NONE.
Vinni-1899269 needs to realize that NOT all schools are the same. Our school for one is VERY proactive about keeping strangers out of the school, and preventing people from entering and hurting/shooting/taking hostage students. For this reason, all classrooms are locked with a key on the inside during all school hours. The only way to get out, is to unlock it. If you don't have your key right there in your hand, what then?
Also, I agree that it may not have even been a door to the outside, maybe it was a coat closet, you have no clue where it led!
I think she gave him ample time to back the heck up and get out of her face, he kept advancing and shoving into her. He got what he deserves. The only sad part I see that happened, is that NONE of these other kids did ANYTHING but film it with a cell phone before it got out of hand.
Even if you aren't a bully, if you watch someone get bullied and do nothing about it, you're just as guilty!
#18 - Mon Jun 6, 2011 12:59 PM EDTI will agree that not all schools are the same, and yes teachers should have the right to defend themselves and so should students that are getting bullied yet it's a double standard for the kids......doesn't matter who started it, they both get disciplined!
I have been in plenty of schools and never witnessed teachers locking the doors from the inside so no one could get out or in, thats a violation of code. If they do lock them it's a door that prevents one from entering not exiting! If you look at the door in the video it's one that pushes out, it's not a closet room etc.....across the board schools are made to function the same way... What if the teacher failed to unlock a door during an emergency and the students died because of it? Doesn't work that way....
We all know the student acted badly and he probably deserved what he got....the issue is did she have the opportunity to deescalate the problem before it got worse, did she as a professional and an adult do everything possible to avoid the incident and make the right decision to hit the student. I don't think she did.....she was firing back verbally and standing her ground, those are not defensive moves.
Vinni, I live a rural area and our school classroom doors are locked and cannot be from the outside but can be easily opened from the inside but the fact still remains if this teacher had reached around to turn the knob and open the door this aggressive teenager would have pounched. I feel this boy was not only being a bully but it was also apparent that he was out of control. He knew he had her on the offensive, knew she was scared, and was going to show her. i had an abusive husband and he acted the same way this boy acted. Without help and some sort of consequences for his actions this teenager is going to seriously hurt someone in the future.
I agree that the boys actions were totally out of line and he should be taken out of the school and punished......You can't teach a class with those kinds of behaviors from anyone.
Very good right hook but the hieghth differance puts her at some considerable disadvantage. Perhaps an upper cut to the point of the jaw over hand to the nose would have been more effective. Also the heal of the hand is much more effective for a woman as her soft fist tends to coshion the blow. Also, injury to her hand is less likely.
#19 - Mon Jun 6, 2011 1:14 PM EDTAs a side note, the school board should defend her right to defend herself as a notice that all teachers have the same right. Once that is understood, occurance of such incedents will become minimum.
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I was PERMANENTLY DISABLED by a violent student. She should be happy to leave.