I am very grateful for what he did and I only wish I could be good enough for passing the training he went through. That said, I don't want to see another American life lost in that country. Screw Afghanistan and bring our men home. Our country is jacked up enough that we shouldn't be trying to dabble in their business too.

I am very grateful for what he did and I only wish I could be good enough for passing the training he went through. That said, I don't want to see another American life lost in that country. Screw Afghanistan and bring our men home.

Here, here - brother. Excellent post.

"Navy SEAL's widow: 'We were blessed to be together'"

After reading this, and as a war-zone Army vet, tears come to my eyes.

I can't help it.

Navy Seals are so selected, due to their diligence and talent, losing one is heart-breaking enough: but 30+ of them?. Having been in the military, in time of conflict, I know how special they are.

My heart just aches.

This breaks my heart and I am crying so hard I can barely see to type. My sincere condolences to this family and to the family and the loved ones of all who were lost in this horrific incident.

To our government, please bring our military service men & women home. They've done enough for people who do not even want them there. Bring them home to the people who want to hug and hold them.

To our military stationed here and around the world; we cannot thank you enough for protecting us and making the ultimate sacrifices daily. Stay safe and come home soon.

Kyzzyxx says:

"I am NOT sorry for HOW he lost his life. I am NOT grateful for his 'service'."

I am really sorry for you. You don't understand honor, duty, sacrifice and country.

How sad and bitter you must be.

Utter-Disbelief

I feel the same way. As a female vet, I saw way too much with the Green Berets and what they went through defending my team in Vietnam.

I'm shedding tears with you.

I was fortunate to have grown up in Virginia Beach, and am proud to have counted some members of the teams at Little Creek among my friends. They are all out of the service now, as am I, but I can't help but see their faces when I read this story. I am almost at a loss for words. The enormity of the loss is staggering. These men are the top 1% of the top 1%, the cream of the crop, the best of the best. They are all those cliche's and more. One of these men is worth more than all the liars and theives in Washington DC. I wish those 30 brave men Godspeed. And you can bet Heaven is a safer place today than it was a couple of days ago.

The death of this young man and his fellows deserves more than boilerplate condolences from our president and others.

These men will be best honored when all are brought home.

That time has come.

No more 'words' from the top.

Let's have the intestinal fortitude...from the top...to bring them all home NOW.

I was on board with the guy until I heard deeply religious. Changes the motivations for fighting the Taliban completely and this news article does us an injustice in furthering the beliefs of the enemy that this is a religious war.

RIP Soldier.

He joined the SEALS because he, and other Seals felt "the very existence of our republic is at stake".

A. I was in the military. I worked hard at everything I put my hand to the entire time I was in. I was in during a war.

B. After my service period was up, I left because I don't believe in the mission and still don't.

I don't think it's right for anyone to take cracks at these guys because of their beliefs but by the same token can't we all be honest and say they were a good-hearted, hard-working bunch of misguided bad-as$es?

I've known guys just like this one. Probably some of the finest 'Americans' you will know, but kind of naive and certainly misled. If they think joining the SEALS is what will keep the remnants of 'the republic' together then they have no idea how the world works.

Did these guys ever consider there wouldn't have been a 9-11 if the FBI, CIA and NSA really could do all that we expect of them? Or how about if citizens really cared one way or the other? How many normal people let the 9-11 hijackers slip on by unquestioned? How many laws let them slip in? These SEALS would do more for the country becoming lawyers fighting the ACLU than they ever could with a handful of well-placed rifle shots.

Or how about the guys that fund it all? The guys who let terrorists slip by so that the steady stream of oil keeps flowing to the open market? The guys in the US who let REAL terrorist sponsored countries to trade in order to prop up the dollar? Gotta have those cheap goods from Pakistan.

Those SEALS had no idea who they were shooting and neither did the Afghans who shot back, but it was all sponsored by our government (i.e. lobbyists for bigger concerns) for what? Was it to end terrorism or catch Osama or what was it again?

And who doesn't think we'll be trade partners with Afghanistan 20 years down the road as we were with Vietnam, China (Vietnam's supplier), Russia (the big bad red menace), Germany (the immortal threat during WWII) and Japan (the guys that would torture American captives)?

War is a sick business that only benefits a handful or people, and you can be certain those people are benefiting. I know we need an Army and a good one. We'd have the best if it was built of guys like those that died in this situation. But why waste them?

It's all very very sick. I do sympathize with the families.

Kyzzyxx says:

"I am NOT sorry for HOW he lost his life. I am NOT grateful for his 'service'."

Spoken Like a a true ingrate who thinks call of duty on xbox is real combat. If it weren't for men like this SEAL and the other men and women of our military, enduring daily what would make you wet your pants, you wouldn't have the freedom to post your dribble safely behind a keyboard. @Leiya123..he's sad and bitter because there are so many with the honor and bravery he lacks ! Pathetic.

Well said @EnuffBull. @Kyzzyxx if those are your thoughts keep them to yourself. Not because you shouldn't be able to voice your own opionion but because words and thoughts like that show that you do not appreciate those who serve our country. They may have been "lied" to as you say but they do it so that every single one of us are able to sit behind this computer and comment on the subject. They are brave enough to fight so one of us are not forced to.

wt1947, you are terribly wrong. The Taliban harbored Osama bin Laden and his terrorist cohorts in Afganistan while they planned and executed the 911 attacks. They provided aid and comfort as well as training bases before and after the attacks, until American forces drove them into the hills. Iraq, however, did not supply or support terrorists to any real degree, and you are correct there.

I am as impressed by the families of these young men as I was with the Seals themselves. I have seen several on TV the past day or so, and without exception they speak of the pride and honor that their loved ones brought to their families and to their country. The families knew and accepted the risks, and have provided a shining example of sacrifice to our nation. Your loved ones did NOT die in vain, but died in the service of the country they loved.

As short as their lives were, the lives of these men counted more than most. They lived and died for more than most of us will ever live and die for. They and their families have my deepest respect and gratitude and always will. Heros, all!

@MovingOut I also spent my time in, 14 yrs , two wars and other conflicts. That I keep hearing god and religion intermingled with duty and service turns my stomach.

I too have seen war, and more importantly, what "religious" war does. It doesn't matter to me whether it's islam or catholicism or jainism for that matter. It's the religion that causes these things and if you have been there then you know damn well that I am right.

I too have seen war, and more importantly, what "religious" war does. It doesn't matter to me whether it's islam or catholicism or jainism for that matter. It's the religion that causes these things and if you have been there then you know damn well that I am right.

For the most part, you are correct. People do not want to deal with both sides of that coin.

That said, this Marine 'may' have been religiously inspired, but the story was far from clear (for obvious PC reasons). That may have just been who he was; a large part of his life that deserved mention in this story. Why they chose this man over the others? Not sure. But I thank him for his bravery and service, despite the war that need not take place.

Offering your life for God and Country - there's not many things more noble or honorable than that. We need to take every opportunity thanks those who put their life on the line every day for us. It's because of them that we have the way of life we have.

Next time you see someone in uniform, a soldier, a fireman or a policeman, take a moment and say thank you.

Kyzzyxx

"COULD YOU BE ANY MORE BRAINWASHED BY YOUR GOVERNMENT?"

Maybe you aren't American. Because we would use: 'Our government' in the statement you just made.

You still sound sad and bitter to me.

I'm sorry for you.

Whatever country has the misfortune of claiming your sorry butt, your government is you. You don't like what they are doing, vote them out.

If you are former military as you claim, then you should know that you are duty and honor bound to go in harms way as and when you are ordered.

I am human. That's the only group that matters. Anything else is propoganda and you all eat it up.. cause you choose to!

I love that he was a Christian and his wife felt she could mention it. This is after all a free country. He loved God and he loved this country. I don't see anything wrong with either of those. It didn't say he went around preaching. It said he did his job and he did it with the love of God.

My heart breaks for her. I am one of the "lucky" ones. My husband only lost body parts in this war. I know what she means though about how much her husband loved being a part of of something bigger. It is an honor to serve this country. Even those who are hateful and disgusting.

On the other hand...people believe our men and women should just say no to their orders. They know nothing about duty and honor.

Kyzzyxx;

It's unfortunate - you obviously need help. Since the armed services are all voluntary and based on the hate you're carrying I have my doubts that you actually served - likewise I'm not convinced you could pass muster psychologically. You absolutely don't display the personality traits required for you to understand sacrifice and I'm pretty sure that the true meaning of honor and duty are eluding you too.

If you actually served, do us all a favor - use your G.I benifits and get some professional help.

K; First, it's spelled "honor". If, as you say, you were in the military, did it occur to you that in battle lives are lost? Not that I believe you actually served, but why would someone like you join up knowing that you'll be facing armed combatants? Too many holes in your story - not likely you're a vet. We're you even born in the US?

Do you find honor in the murderous attacks on innocents by cowardly terrorists on American soil? Are you aware that we must seek them out because they hide behind women and children?

It must be dreadful for you, as bitter, lonely and confused as you sound. Please get help.

Kyzzyxx. You just sound like a pissed off hippy. Or a little girl.

Either way, you're a tool, and nobody values your opinion.

Kyzzyxx...please give us specifics about your active military involvement. unit deployments, citiations, dates etc. if you are legit, please continue. if bogus however it's like we Nam vets told the hippies, if you haven't been there shut-up.

Chuck in Olathe , Mechanical Escape, and Judgement Day-2252010

I'm tired of trying to reason with him. I don't think he's American (because I believe he was 'conscripted' by his own country). The U.S military would not have put up with this sort of attitude or morale.

Salutes and honor to all that support our armed forces.

Obviously I know how to spell honor and that you choose to start off with that, when I have spelt honor correctly every other time, means you have little ground to stand on and you are looking for anything to justify your murderous stance. And I don't give a damn if you believe me or not. I know what I did in my life.

No, I do not find honor in their attacks. But I find even less honor in what you believe in (a road I am hardly gonna go down since you can't even grasp this simple bit of logic).

A 'tool' (in this context) is someone who allows themself to be used by other people to gain a desired result. You know, like killing people over lies and for no clear reason. I'm not the murderer. Fool.

Explain to me how YOU think they are being 'honorable'. I have heard nothing along those lines. All I hear is you people telling me I am wrong, but not WHY I am wrong. You just spout what your controllers have told you all your life, like the good little TOOLS they want you to be. What part of what they are doing over there is, in any way, honorable? You can't have honor when you don't even have a clear goal.

I don't need help, but you sure do!

Leiya123;
Amen. I had a similar notion about his country of origin but I'd hoped he'd provide a little more info.

How typical. Don't like what I am saying so you try and discredit my validity in any way you can. Like, by trying to claim that because I am not an American means any point I make is instantly of no value. Can you be any more transparent? (sadly, for us all, I am considered an American.. for now).

Still waiting for an actual thought that you came up with on your own and that you weren't told by someone else how to think it. I bet you can't. I KNOW you can't. You type of people are a dime-a-dozen. You know NOTHING but what you have been TOLD to think. You have NEVER come up with an original thought on your own.

Kyzzyxx

All you're doing now is spouting rhetoric and inane phrases. Where are your values, duty, and sense of country (since you said you were a military vet)?

Which country did you serve?

(I hope it wasn't the U.S.)

But if it was, I bet you got a dishonorable discharge or general discharge.

K; I think you've exceeded your shelf-life. It didn't help your cause that you attacked the memory of Americans that died as heroes in the service of our country, and then went of on a nonsensical rant accusing the people posting here as murderers. Maybe you should consider taking a Dale Carnegie course.

You don't have to think like everyone else to be a part of the conversation here - lots of very different opinions are represented and accepted here - however, you do have to think, else you get chewed up the way you did.

Lol. I knew it! Not ONE of you came out with an actual answer to my question. Why? Because you don't have one!

My 'values' are don't take human life. Something that is apprently impossible for you to understand. Hence, the term 'murderer or supporters of murdering' and I don't give a damn if you don't like it. I didn't make you are what you are, I just pointed it out and THAT is what you don't like and THAT is why you all are hiding in your pathetic little shells cause you know, deep inside, I am right and you have NO response. Cause there IS NONE!

You sit there and say I am the one not thinking when I have given exactly why I state what I have stated, and why, but NONE have you have done likewise. It is YOU that have not been thinking and have just been trying to disprove anything I say by falsities like 'hes not an american' or criticizing one mispelling of a word that I spelled correctly every other time.

YOU HAVE NOTHING!

And here's a real pisser for you. U.S. Honorable.

Now, again I ask. Where is the honor in what they are doing? Well.............?

Well, K, If you read the article and you still don't understand their honor, their duty, their service you will never "get" it. My guess is you're not as obtuse as you seem - you just don't want to get it. Either way, I'm done - go play in traffic, tell your mom it's your nap time - what ever it is you want to do, just go away and let the adults talk. No one here really cares what you think.

I think you are confusing the fact of their being dead with what they were on a mission to do. In my eyes they are brave because they do what I could not do and what you seem to not have done either which is to serve a country in ways bigger than themselves. If you want to make it about th US occupying lands solely for political reasons then that is your right but know that no armed services in this country can do squat with out a bunch of kids raising their hands and saying I will go so my son does not have to.

You seem to have some very specific internalized rage over the armed forces and war in general. Why you have chosen this thread to flip you wig in perplexing? Maybe you are a jihadist? Maybe you are the type that relishes things like Columbine and Norway? Maybe suffering like what is happening in Somalia and Haiti and Japan is what gets you off? Either way, you apparently need to seek help for it. Now in answer to your question... The honor in what they did or were doing and for the hundreds and thousands who are deployed elsewhere is they fight for the very freedoms we enjoy in this country. I do not know where you are or what country you are from but if you were originally from someplace else but came here there must be for a reason on than to espouse your rage. Maybe you are part of a terror cell? Who knows but most folks who seek the shores of this country do so because for better or worse it provides opportunities in some ways that far outpace other places on this earth. So these brave young people fought and fight for that. They even fight for your ability to be hateful and ignorant. So as much as you gripe on and on about not being sorry for the fact they died or what they died for. You should happily tuck yourself in to you bed at night and know that they died for you too. In spite of the non-sensical fools who eat up the debate in this country. This much I know. So we are all gonna pray for you and hope you can get the help you seem to desperately need.

Kyzzyxx - Do you deny that Afghanistan is full of corrupt leaders? Do you deny that the Taliban ( a violent group of extremists) has a deep stronghold there? Do you deny that the Taliban harbored/harbors members of Al Quaeda?

Seeing as other countries including the UK have forces there are they also brianwashed by our government? Or mayhap you are proposing that the governments of the UK are also brainwashing it's people?

While I despise that the U.S. is spending so much on the problems of other countries when our own country is in such dire financial straits, it is honorable to help those who cannot help themselves. It is our duty to protect the wrongfully persecuted. If that requires deadly force then so be it.

They are not just "murdering"people. They are trying to protect the ones who don't have the wherewithall to protect themselves and trying to help an entire nation bring about democracy and better circumstances for the people of that country.

Thank God for men like this and the families behind them. His sacrifice was over in a moment hers and his families will linger for ever. The tree of liberty has been watered by more than blood it has been watered with tears from those who loved him and those who feel a loss that is shared by an entire nation.

Kyzzyxx says:

"Chuck, I thought you were done. Well, if you are, then stfu or gtfo."

You have violated the COH on Newsvine. You can't carry a reasonable conversation or debate politely. Shame on you!

Why be so insulting and ugly when there are differing opinions from yours?

Quick question about something I heard from one of these widows, who I work with. Though she can be flaky at times, I can see what she said to be true, but just wanted to ask others.

She said the wife's now have to keep a low profile (her words were "Go in hiding") because of the release of the names from team VI and their in-direct connection with Laden. Anyone else hear anything like this?

On a side note: who's bright idea was it to shove that many Seals (22) in an over sized sardine-can and fly them through a territory where RPGs are a time a dozen? Something just doesn't feel right about this...

Actually I gave disgruntled a "no value" rating. He blames the Afghans for shooting back afer we invaded their country. Typical white christian.

I don't condone the War, never have, never will. I do, however, regardless of a person's occupation, creed, or any other possible category you can think of, pray for their souls and all the souls of the departed. There are some here that feel that just because they disagree with the person's occupation, they should ignore that person's life. Wrong. Each person dead leaves behind a nation, a community, and a family to grieve. Regardless of what the person did, do their families deserve the grief? no. If you still can't find it in your heart to at least think about/pray for the soldiers, at least do so for their families, because the hardest part is just beginning for them

Leiya123:
Kzzyxx has been reported to the moderator for COH violations. As I pointed out to him, he really doesn't understand the concept of "honor". Thanks for the back-up.

Chuck in Olathe

I sent you my acceptence message.

Thank-you and best regards,

Leiya

Why? Because you two insult humanity's common sense every. single. day. And seriously, that's the best you got? You two have not been able to come up with a single, valid comment. you just keep hiding behind stupidity.

Also, if they do moderate me. Wah. I don't care if some misguided opinion channel 'moderates' me for making valid points. It only shows THEIR ignorance. People have right to be angry (NOT violent) about what is going on and if MSNBC thwarts that in any way, then I have ZERO respect for them.

Kyzzyxx

You have every right to be angry: but on Newsvine you can't be insulting!

I support Chuck in what he did in post 1.47

Leiya - I love the exchange of ideas, I love debate and I enjoy challenging conversation. That being said I think anyone who falls back into degrading comments and childish insults is really admitting they have run out of ideas.

There are plenty of people posting here that understand those concepts - there is no reason to waste time and effort on those that don't. Thanks for taking the high road!

Chuck in Olathe

You're welcome buddy!

Wait. I ask you questions that you still have not answered, instead you try and discredit my comments and life instead of answering the question(s) or volunteering counterpoints and then you say:

"I think anyone who falls back into degrading comments and childish insults is really admitting they have run out of ideas"

Which is, essentially, what I said about you 3-4 posts back. Hm, intetesting. I also said something about you just regurgitating what others have told you and never having an original thought of your own.

You 2 are projecting and then you're just validating each others projections making you think you are right. Amusing.

Ah, couldn't find it at first...

"go play in traffic, tell your mom it's your nap time - what ever it is you want to do, just go away and let the adults talk. No one here really cares what you think"

Yes, you are sooo taking the 'high road' there, Chucky

At least I have no problem admitting this stupidity that what's going on over there pisses me off or calling a spade a spade, or stupid thinking what it is.

Kyzzyxx says:

"Yes, you are sooo taking the 'high road' there, Chucky"

I'm not going to waste time on your insolence. Especially when you defame the name of a friend of mine.

Where is your 'honor and respect'?

Ok, now you are just trolling. You're 'friend' projected and I called him on it.

Leiya - I'm thinking you're better off talking to a wall. As much as we want them to, some are completely unable to process the qualities we've talked about.

The Men (I capitalized it on purpose) that gave their lives to their country when the helicopter was shot down - they understood duty, patriotism, honor, loyalty and commitment. They were men in every sense of the word. We owe them - and every last man and woman who have stepped into the line of fire for us - our undying gratitude. It hard to type these thoughts without tears welling up.

There are people who will never ever have a glimmer of the qualities of the fallen heroes, never have a clue about how far off the mark they are. Hoping they will someday reach up to touch the shoe-tops of those soldiers is like hoping your dog will learn calculus.

Kyzzyxx

I'm not trolling, I'm calling you out for defamation of character.

I'll bandy words with you anytime. But, it will be courteous and with respect.

Chuck in Olathe

I'm a fighter, and I've never given up with fighting stupidity. This person upsets me so, with his off the wall degrading and rhetoric.

It's asinine!

Leiya; The personal attacks are unwarranted. After he attacked me a couple of times, referring to me as "stupid" and a "murderer, I wasn't as respectful as I had been. My experience has been people that try to communicate with insults and personal attacks are usually a couple of burritos short of a combination plate. They have no ideas to share, just hate.

Chuck in Olathe

Thanks Buddy,

I started to go on a rant, but caught myself. I appreciate You. You're Man enough to withstand abuse, but I've seen so many horrid things while serving our Nation in Vietnam (this whole Navy Seal ordeal brings back so many memories with my Green Beret buddies that are now dead, while protecting me and my team in so many clandestine -listening post/intelligence/intercept operations).

"I'm not trolling, I'm calling you out for defamation of character."

Ya, then why aren't you calling your 'friend' out also? Puhleeze. How pathetic.

Aww, what's the matta? I state a truism that you don't like and have no response to and I am insulting you. I so love the QQ. You deserve it.

I have ZERO respect for your type. It takes a much bigger person (read: honorable) to work through problems than to kill someone. Anyone can do something that pathetic. Something neither of you have a clue about, apparently. Killing is the easy solution and takes very little thought or pride or ability and there is NO honor in that. Disgusting!!!!

Thanks for the kind words. My dad was a Marine, served in the South Pacific - a real man's man. I may never really know how much I owe him.The older I've gotten the more it means to me what the American soldier truly is.

Thank you for your service - thanks doesn't say enough though. The people serving in Vietnam didn't get the respect and appreciation they deserved. God bless you for standing up for your country.

Don't let people with no character get the best of you. One way they make themselves feel better is to try bringing others down to their level - it's old advice but I think it applies here.

Kyzzyxx say's "I have ZERO respect for your type."

How sad. I respect your opinions but yours are very disrespectful. You talk about military service, but you still haven't answered the question of which country.

My friend (buddy, -Chuck) is an American, we have values and ethics based on serving God, Family, and Country.

I can understand if you have a different set of standards.

Let's be respectful.

Leiya - He said he has no respect for our "type". Unfortunately we can't adjust the font for him so he'll have to learn to deal with it.

Chuck in Olathe

I really appreciate You.

Your Buddy, Leiya

P.S This whole Navy Seal crash with the Chinook copter upsets me, -as you can probaly tell. My heart still aches, with each news article that comes forward!

It's been decades since I've thought about all the horrid experiences and joy-full experiences I've been through while serving out Nation.

May God bless You.

No you don't respect me (not that I care, just makin a point). You don't even respect life, much less, me

You kill humans.

Let me repeat that so it sinks in

You kill humans.

.. and then you use the term God. Can it get any more pathetic? Talk about conflicted. How sad for you.

.. and then you call yourselves 'American' and how you have 'values' and 'ethics' like you are the only ones on the planet that do. You DO realize the rest of the world laughs at your 'values' and 'ethics', right. Especially after the torture. You are a gang. Nothing more.

You talk about shedding tears for your fallen comrades. How about tears for all the innocents you have killed, the ones that wanted nothing to do with your killing. Where is your tears for them? My heart cries every night for THEM, not the ones, like you, who will so blindly kill them.

But, I see now why you are so willing to kill. You believe in a God. How typical. How sad. Do you think your Jesus would have gone to war? Do you think he would have signed up? No. Does that make him dishonorable? More honorable? Then why did you?

You CHOOSE to blindly fight instead of forcing resolutions. Do you REALLY think that what is going on in Afghanistan right now has ANY honor in it. Do you think there is anyone that does not know this is a waste. That is dishonorable. As long as there are people like you that will CHOOSE to kill, there will be war. All it takes is a choice. And no, you cannot justify it by saying 'well, they will kill anyways'. Logic Fail. Go ahead, try it.

They DO call me an American, even tho it means nothing to me. I am HUMAN, nothing more, nothing less. And while I don't want to answer this question, as it is meaningless (not that you will ever see that) I will to make a point. I was born in Glendale CA on 3/29/61. So, yes, unfortunately, I am called an American. So how does THAT fit in your whole 'we have 'values' and 'ethics' comment? kinda makes your whole statement fall apart, doesn't it. You two are laughable. You are a COMPLETE logic fail in life. I could have ripped the logic of you two in SO many ways it's actually scary that it is so easy. I can't tell you how much I have held back in commenting on the utterly dumb statements you have made.

It is people like you two that make me sick for humanity.

'kinda makes your whole statement fall apart' (not that it had ANY validity in the first place)

Kyzzyxx

I'm though with you. Go away!

Your not respectful and can't answer one simple question many posts above: (what country did you serve your military duty in?). You're degrading to me and my Newsvine friends.

Good-bye!

lol, but yet, you have refused to answer the question I put to you long before that. How hypocritical.

Let me see, I said I was born in the US, so odds are that is where I served. Which would be correct. During the Iran-Contra hostage crisis. It was that service that brought home how utterly stupid and dishonorable killing is.

Kyzzyxx

You're like an old woman, - always having to have the last word. Plus, you can't see reason for any of 'our' objections to your comments. I've been very respectful to you: maybe you could learn the lesson.

You know you haven't been truthful or objective, but still you retort with lame responses. This is my last comment to you. Have a good life.

yet you respond also.... puhleeze.

I'm not truthful or objective.. that is laughable. I don't even tell white lies cause I think they are danaging, but go ahead, believe what you want.

Hey Kyzzyxx,

I must apologize for my lack of knowledge here, but did you say you served in the military?

If so, did you eat at the chow halls?

Did you have self service toasters in the ones you ate at that were installed on little shelves above a wall outlet?

NT4M;

This fellow says he served somewhere, has been asked many times but won't tell anyone where. Good luck if you're hoping for a conversation with a mature adult. A near as I can tell all that have tried have come away disappointed.

I see you served in the Navy. Thanks for your service!

Kkkyzzyxx,

we already have enough stupid people here (like HOTTICKET and biteme), we don't need more. Either you answer the questions presented to you, or screw off.

peace6, of course it's a typical Christian response, but where do you get hypocrite? Of course, that's generally the first word out of the mouth of the typical Christian hater...

Thank you Tod. J. My husband is also USN retired, and both of us love God, and country. I thank you for your service to our country. I well understand the sacrifices you made over the years.

My heart, and my prayers go out to Kimberly Vaughn, and to all of the other families who lost a precious loved one. They were true, and honorable warriors who made the ultimate sacrifice for our freedom. The world will be a little less without them, and Heaven has gained some true hero's.

"All gave some, some gave all."

In answer to All That Is:

Despite the immense evil of war, Jesus said it is inevitable that wars will continue until He returns (Mark 13:7-8), and He did not oppose earthly governments or their right to maintain armies (Matthew 8:5-10). Other New Testament passages accept the necessity of maintaining armies and the worthiness of military occupations (Luke 3:14, Acts 10:1-6)

cherrypie::you said "They were true, and honorable warriors who made the ultimate sacrifice for our freedom.

im very sorry to tell you that what he died for has nothing whatsoever to do with OUR FREEDOM.

he died for a political agenda put forth by a crooked and corrupt government.

his death was completely senseless and a complete waste of a good man.

nothing going on over there has anything at all to do with OUR FREEDOMS

Of course it has to do with our freedom. If we weren't taking the fight to them, they would be building a huge terrorist network in order to attack our country again.

Do you disagree with killing terrorists? Should we just allow them to recruit and train more terrorists? Should we just allow them to stock pile weapons?

wow you really are a governmental sheep arent you.

"they would be building a huge terrorist network in order to attack our country again."

really?? can you proove that they ever attacked our country in the first place?

damn dude really pull your head out of the governments @ss and think for yourself for once. its people like you that make me fear for this planet and the people on it.

i guess you dont remember the fact that the united states GAVE them most of the weapons thet they have.

do you not remember that the united states gave these weapons to bin laden and also trained his troops.

you really need to search and learn your history dude and not just simply believe everything the government propaganda tells you

@cherrypie-3805927

- Thou shalt not covet thy neighbors goods.

- Thou shalt not kill.

I'll play from the vantilian presuppositional apologetic playbook.

Explain why we are there... explain why this "occupation" is necessary. If you are truly a chrisitian one would think you would covet these "rules" above all others.. So what say you?

sjhrace - I'm not a sheep. They are absolutely trying to build a terrorist network. I've done something you obviously haven't done. I've been there. I've seen it. You like to sit at home and read conspiracy theories and try to figure out top secret information that is being purposely hidden from idiots like you. Your problem is you THINK you are smarter than you really are. You think you are smarter than the people leading this country. You think you can put a few things together off of the internet and assume it all makes sense, but you're way off base. YOU need to STOP searching crap on the internet. My own eyes are WAY more reliable than your internet searches. Why don't you join up and take a little vacation to the sand box and see for yourself?

You have to read all of the bible not just the part that you think will help you out of things.

"War is always bad from some aspects but sometimes they have been necessary. God required the Israelites to go to war against the Canaanites so that they could occupy Canaan (the promised land). King Saul was told by Samuel to go down to Amalek and totally destroy the Amalekites. The army of Israel was in war against the Philistines when David met the challenge of Goliath and slew him. There were many other wars as well that the Israelites participated in with God's approval. All of this time they were living under the Law of Moses that had among its commandments, "Thou shalt not kill." We know that God did not command or endorse anything contrary to the Law, therefore, one needs to look at the commandment a bit more closely.

The commandment, "Thou shalt not kill" (Exodus 20:13) KJV really means one should not commit murder and it is so rendered in later translations. Not all killing is murder as murder is defined as follows: "The unlawful, malicious, and intentional killing of one human being by another." While war is going to result in loss of life it would not be considered murder. Capital punishment was utilized throughout Old Testament history even for violating the Sabbath. If one was found working on the Sabbath he was stoned to death (Numbers 15:30-36). Persons caught committing adultery were likewise stoned to death so you see all killing was not condemned."

You can't just interpret it how you want. Words mean things.

RANGER::: no man you are correct i have never been in the middle east.

and you must also be correct that our government would never and has never done anything dishonest or ever lied to the american people..of course that would make no sense at all.

our government has never had any kind of agenda other than protecting the american people from harm.

because of course the american government loves us and would never be dishonest with us or do anything bad.

we should all just believe what our government says and simply go along with it no matter what.

sorry man i for one just cant do that and no i dont get my history from the internet...just saying

I for one believe religion causes more problems than what it is trying to solve...however, this man was religious...it helped him every day in what he had to go through...being away from family, fighting an enemy that hated him so much...as I am sure that same religion will help his family cope with his death.

Don't you dare put any of these soldiers down simply becayue they found comfort in their faith, no matter what it was. They all deserve to worship in whatever way they please.

I hope his family and friends can get through this with as little pain as possible...

sjhrace- you are right. terrorists never attacked our embassies in Africa, they did not blow up any barracks in Saudi Arabia, they did not attack the stark, they do not oppress women, they do not attack markets full of innocent civilians, they do not torture and kill civilians, they did not behead anyone, they do not recruit poor ignorant children to blow themselves up in the name of God, they did not attack us on 9/11. terrorists are peace loving people who are only defending themselves and their children against our heartless attempt to impose freedom on the people of Afghanistan.

I am glad we all have you to set us straight.

by the way in case anyone is too dumb to realize sarcasm I would like to point out that the above is sarcasm.

Todd, no all Americans subscribe to your superstition - where should your prayers be? - you seem to be familiar with Matthew.

Onepoker say's: post 3.13

"by the way in case anyone is too dumb to realize sarcasm I would like to point out that the above is sarcasm"

I realized it from the the beginning. A lot of people are ignorant of world affairs and how things need to be played out (and with sacrifice).

Regards,

Leiya123

Onepoker. Thank you, great post.

sjhrace - Our government does keep things from the public. I absolutely agree. We have several top secret operations and projects ongoing in the world. Why is that? It's because the masses unfortunately can't be trusted with certain information. The masses in general tend to be over-reactive, paranoid, illogical and lack perspectve. (Like you)

People like you are EXACTLY why our government hides things from the public and only tries to entrust sensitive information to people they know are logical and reliable human beings. The government isn't perfect. There are alot of in and outs and personal political agendas... But it's still the damn best government in the world. And if you don't think so, you are free to get involved in politics and try to make a difference... or you can always move to another country.

Hello everybody,

I have a question... I served in the U.S. Navy from 1978-86, I believe in the "concept" of god, but don't neccesarily buy into the stories from the bible.

Soooo.... my question is, does that make me a godless traitor sheep, led by my government down the road of hypocrisy and shame?

Or does it make me a 1946 Sunbeam toaster with double chrome fender strips, and melmac valve seals woven into polyester ribs, welded onto a unibody frame?

It's one or the other... just not sure which book to buy.

All That Is,

Aaron was doing the Lords work protecting us from terrorism. You are obviously a sheep and Aaron was a Sheepdog protecting us from Wolves.

John Titor

They get "paid to kill" so that no North Korean or Taliban soldier will be paid to kill you, and thousands of others in the event of an occupation/major terorist attack.

Your version of Christianity differs from others. Countless Christians defend our nation on the battlefield everyday, and they are no less faithful to their religion than you.

All that is: You are one of the many sheep that the wolves love.

To disagree without offending the faithful, numerous gospels were deleted from the bible by those in control throughout the centuries. Also, the New Testament was created to be more palatable to suit the changes in society.

To attack one for picking and choosing what they choose to believe in is not only a very UnChristian thing to do, it is also the height of hypocrisy if you knew anything of the history of the Bible.

"Thou shalt not kill" wasn't preached as Christians marched for years to slaughter Muslims for 100 years during the Crusades. They picked and chose the parts of the Bible since it was written, as does your very church, since it is proven much has been changed in translation as well as gospels preaching versions of Christianity not accpeted by those in power in the church. Leave our Christian soldiers alone. Don't serve if it against your ideas of faith. It's a voluntary serivce afterall. Return the Christian spirit if there's any in you.

You are a dumb ass. How do you think you can say what you say; someone has protected your rights. How can you call yourself an american and hide behind those word. Why do you stay here if you don't make a difference or give something to your country. Cowards hiding behind religion. Keep you religious rhetoric to yourself and your fellow terrorist.

There is an old movie entitled "Sergeant York," based on the true story of a man from Tennessee who was an exceptional marksman, but also a conscientious objector (did not believe in killing) during WWI. He was drafted, but tried to get out of it because he did not believe he could bring himself to kill anyone. His commanding officer gave him a book of U.S. History and said he should take two weeks off to go home and read it. After reading it, he returned and said he would go into battle, but did not know if he could kill anyone.

In the heat of battle, watching his fellow soldiers being mowed down by German machine guns, he worked his way behind enemy lines, took out the gunners and captured a German officer. He and a handful of his surviving men took 134 German prisoners.

York was awarded the Medal of Honor and was the most decorated American soldier of WWI.

He later said that he did what he had to do to hasten the end of the war and minimize the killing.

Actually the Ancient Greek version of the Bible (the oldest known to exist) translates to "Thou shall not Murder" Big difference between Murder and Kill.

peace6, you seem to know nothing of Christianity nor of the Bible. Let me help you out. In the Bible are many words that can be translated "kill" from Greek and Aramaic. These words have many shades of meaning. One word is to kill as in slaughtering livestock for food. Another is to kill due to accident or negligence. Another is to kill as in time of war. Yet another is to kill in self or family defence. The one translated "kill" in the ten commandments comes from a word that means to kill another human being without good reason or just cause. In other words, murder.

To "all that is" and Peace6.

I guess you haven't read much of the Bible. The law of thou shalt not murder was given to Israel and right after that God orders the people to wipe out certain cities because they were evil in Gods eye and held a big threat against the existence of Israel. So, it shows completely that in certain cases, killing is allowed especially for the protection of the Country.

dnimerick.....i know quite a bit about the bible. i practiced christianity faithfully for 30 years....then i wised up. i just don't care to know as deeply as you know. it would be meaningless to do so.

"To disagree without offending the faithful,"

That's much more offensive to historians than the faithful. Put down the Brown mass market paperbacks and pick up the Metzger academics if you want to speak intelligently about the formation of the canon. They're drier and will run you a few more dollars but at least you won't make the educated roll their eyes when you speak.

Probably fewer than 99% of the Crusaders could read anything, and even fewer would have had any meaningful concept of what the Bible said. They were mostly hired swords or indebted peasants following orders. Most of the authentic religious fanatics never even made it to the Holy Land. Religion played a part in the Crusades, but it was never overarching and its role rapidly diminished soon after the fighting started. The Crusades were ultimately about the same thing all wars are about: money, property, and power. Religion, at most, was the glossy excuse it usually is.

@dnimerick Difference between murder and kill? Typical academic. Have someone do that to a loved one and see if you find a difference... shmuck.

The only definition we have of a god is that he/she/it is infinitely too complex for man to understand it.

It's you that has no grasp of your religion, if you did, you would never believe in it. Such as other religions you do not prescribe to.

peace6 if you know the bible so well, you quote Thou shalt not kill. How about the original text , go back to hebrew , thou shalt not Murder is the translated intention of the word. When you have to kill to help keep the safety of people that is not murder, like some cold blooded person going out here on a killing spree.

You said you practiced chrsitianity for 30 year ? Practiced it ? or did you have an intimate passionate love for christ and his sacrifice he made for all men ? big difference between just being in church and studying the bible and have a personal relationship with christ.

As for our fallen hero.. you crossfitters out there.. we need to make sure we do a hero work out to honor this guy who died for us.

Ghost, I am a Bible - believing Christian. Having said that, I would never dishonor myself by calling someone a name from a hidey hole behind a keyboard as you have done me.

dnimerick If it were possible I would say it straight to your face and if you knew me you would know that my calling you that name was under restraint.

That you believe the earth was made in 7 days, dinosaurs didn't exist until man came around, and that a woman was created from a mans rib is on you. As you say, you are a fundamentalist, either you believe it or you don't.

Arguing semantics between kill and murder, it's the ends not the means that matters here. Both = dead. Until you climb a ladder and pull part of a buddy off a roof or turn over a helmet with congealed blood in it flop out like a jello mold come talk to me.

I am a patriot, not a proselytizer. My strong conviction comes with the knowledge that this nation is unique among all others in that it alone invokes a secular constitution. I strongly believe in your right to practice your faith and would defend the same with my life.

What I expect in return is the respect that others do not share your faith and that they do not care to or expect to be held by your religious values, allow your faith to overshadow fact, and dictate a state sponsored religious faith.

I go by the following addage:

Having a religion is a lot like having a penis. It's ok to have it, it's ok to enjoy it, it's ok to share with other willing individuals. It is not ok to whip it out in public in an effort to show superiority and it is most certainly not ok to shove it down our kids throats.

I am a patriot, not a proselytizer. My strong conviction comes with the knowledge that this nation is unique among all others in that it alone invokes a secular constitution. I strongly believe in your right to practice your faith and would defend the same with my life.

What I expect in return is the respect that others do not share your faith and that they do not care to or expect to be held by your religious values, allow your faith to overshadow fact, and dictate a state sponsored religious faith.

I go by the following addage:

Having a religion is a lot like having a penis. It's ok to have it, it's ok to enjoy it, it's ok to share with other willing individuals. It is not ok to whip it out in public in an effort to show superiority and it is most certainly not ok to shove it down our kids throats.

Wow Ghost. So perfectly expressed. I would love to quote you and hang it on my wall. If anyone can not see the absolute common sense in your words....I lose all faith in mankind. Well done.

peace6

right. you either believe ALL the bible as is...with nothing added nor taken away...or you don't.

"thou shalt not kill".

In the Old Testament, the Jews did a lot of God-sanctioned murdering of heathen men, women, children and babies. They were, for the most part, not defending themselves, but killing unbelievers while acquiring territory, all with God's approval. (Today, the more radical Zionists apparently believe that they have a mandate to do the identical thing.) Since their God said it's OK, I'll have to give them a pass.

Christians, on the other hand, supposedly followers of Jesus, I can't give a pass. Their leader, Jesus, very clearly showed what he thought of violence and killing to defend oneself when his disciple, Peter, sought to defend him by cutting off the ear of the high priest's servant. Jesus replaced the ear, and said, "My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight." (KJV) Jesus, also, practiced what he preached: though he could easily have destroyed his executioners, he meekly permitted himself to be crucified.

In spite of that, Christians fight and kill to prevent being killed; and I think I know why: While Christians supposedly believe that there is a Heaven to which they'll be going eventually, they wish to delay that trip as long as possible. If Heaven were such a great place, one would think they'd be anxious to get there ASAP. The truth of the matter is that most Christians aren't really all that sure about Heaven (or whether they'll get there), so they will do whatever is necessary to preserve their lives on earth. Religious suicide bombers, by contrast, appear to be far more certain about their hereafter than Christians.

JustaGrunt

Actually the Ancient Greek version of the Bible (the oldest known to exist) translates to "Thou shall not Murder" Big difference between Murder and Kill.

The purpose of the bin Laden mission was to murder him, not bring this unarmed man to trial. A trial would have run the risk of revealing why Bush tried to prevent any investigation of 9/11, refused to answer investigators' questions under oath (even in private) and why half the 9/11 commissioners, citing lying and noncooperation by Bush administration officials, have called the 9/11 report a cover-up. Bin Laden denied doing 9/11, and the FBI says it has NO concrete evidence connecting him to 9/11 (in spite of the fake video that's been shown).

Hey!!

Can't we all just get along?

Believe in CAKE!! Carrot cake!!

Icy cold coke anyone?

There's nothing wrong with being a wolf or a sheep.

A wolf cleans up the woods by scavaging, and sheep provide wool and lambchops.

Wolves and sheep unite!

Lets eat toast!!!

now this is the kind of comment people should be leaving :)

I agree 100% with shoobz and Michael in Bayfield.

Tears are rolling down my face as I write this..........may God bless this brave, inspirational, and heroic man's family as they grieve his loss. He should be honored for his love of God, Country and his family. He gave the ultimate sacrifice, as did his wife and children (in losing thier husband/dad). My prayers are with you all!

christians are believers in the story of killing the son of god and then his loving them so much he is going to let them live forever.

Man can kill god?

May all that believe die soon and they can join him in the hereafter.

Indeed, my heartfelt condolences to all of their Families and to their spirits, peace that surpasses all understanding.

I think Laura has a crush on a certain someone....

These brave soldiers aren't afraid of death like you so obviously are. You have no foundation...You are the one we are sorry for.

yup! and children living only 1 day to maybe 2 years with flies on every square inch of there bodies 24/7, with nothing to eat or drink or do, and then DIE!...or old women living out in the woods with knowledge of how to use plants for medicinal purposes (just like drug companies)...who refuse to conform and become a sheep and be like THEM...when along come some christians (them) and subject them to the most agonizing death anyone can dream up...burning them alive in the name of their "HE" god. (include here millions of other people for thousands of other reasons still all in the name of a "HE" god)...or millions of people in hundreds of wars dying for NO other reason than someone thinks their "HE" god is better than theirs...or thousands of children dying of hunger every day in the richest country in the world, a country claiming to be a nation founded on GOD (yup...that same "HE" god)...or thousands of native americans dead at the hands of people who came to their once peaceful land to start that same country above (in the name of..........you guessed it........their "HE" god)...or a bunch of this "HE" god's children running a country founded on many good principles, one of which is , "all men (after the word, "HE") are created equal" and then needing to finally pass a LAW after many decades that says "now we will actually treat all 'men' equally.........and still don't!

quite frankly...if you want me to conform and be like you...I'LL PASS!!!!!!!!!!!

These brave soldiers aren't afraid of death like you so obviously are. You have no foundation...You are the one we are sorry for.

brokeincolorado............please point out what it is in hotticket's quote that even HINTED that he/she was afraid of death.......please.......WAITING............

I am not religious... But to blame the bible or God is not logical... Blame the people who interpret it incorrectly and/or twist it to serve their own agenda.

HOTTICKET: God gives man free will. Its man who makes these decisions to kill. Its man that refuses to help out fellow man. God can only stand there and watch unless he wills everyone to love one another. But by taking away free will, he would not be a true God. Don't blame God for man's transgressions.

. But by taking away free will, he would not be a true God.

Umm, why? How does our free will have any impact on god? Are you saying god is somehow defined by men?!? How very heretical of you.

Ronkonkoma Chet.......so god just let's all this sht happen to innocents like children, witches, and drafted soldiers, etc. down thru the ages.?

you can have "HIM"! i'll do without that kind of god thank you. i want an ACTUAL loving god.

God can only stand there and watch unless he wills everyone to love one another.

That isn't very omnipotent of him. If I were god the bullets would never hit those who are 'righteous'. Disease would not exist, and I'd return emails.

Eng and Peace: so you need a GOD who has to create only good in you. You are not capable of doing good on your own, you need it programmed into you. God created us in His liking. By the same token there is evil out there. An absence of good is evil. God gives us this choice to make in life. Do you not believe if all mankind devoted its efforts to helping one another rather than ignoring or destroying one another that this would be a much better world and there would no longer be starvation and death?

Eng: are you saying you sent God an E-Mail and he hasn't answered yet?

I look at events both good and bad as learning moments. A life is not measured in time alone. My mother would say that reminded of the loss of her little boy when he was 7 in a car accident. My mother embraced God even more and when asked if she blamed the man who killed my brother should would reply he suffered enough.

so CHET...........you still haven't addressed my point about god letting all this evil happen and innocent., clean, non'sinning 2-week-old children die of starvation. you keep saying the same thin over again.

peace: is God forcing people do do evil or are they choosing to do evil?

Chet, my email comment was intended to be humorous, with a bit of truth behind it. Atheists, would be absolutely thrilled to have god provide evidence of his existence. However, god has yet to provide any proof of being real. Hence our disbelief in god.

Secondly, I never made any statement that I require good to be programmed into me, or that people couldn't solve a bunch of the world's problems if we could all just cooperate. However, there is still a lot of pain and suffering in this world that is needless. And that refutes the existence of a god as described by christians (i.e. all-just/good, omnipotent and omniscient).

And I'll answer for Peace in his absence: people choose to be evil sometimes. And nature is downright "evil" sometimes (just ask the Japanese).

Who cares? The fact is, I see a child dying in the street from hunger, and I have more food that I know what do do with, and it would take no effort on my part to feed the child and end the suffering, and I do nothing! If so I'm one sadistic a$$hole, and even if I didn't cause the suffering, I'm still complicit in that child's death. This is happening, literally, in Somalia today. A god, if real, is that guy letting kids die in the street.

I have no problem with your disbelief in God. Everyone is entitled to believe whatever they wish. According to your beliefs,since there is no God, humans are the cause of children starving in the world, not He. Are humans capable of eliminating hunger in the world? I believe so, but greed and lack of compassion stop this from happening.

peace6 there are abundant logical answers to your question.. Its a question asked all the time.. IF god is so loving, then how can He let X EVIL happen to X people. I could give you links to endless information, that is logically and rationally talked about, but I wont do it because people like you will refuse to believe what anyone has to say because YOU already have your mind made up. Which the bible talks about that too. People who close their minds, hearts, and wont listen. You think I like the idea of bad things happening ? Im like you, i get angry and dont understand sometimes but thats up to God.

Bighorn, your a fool and you just informed the world with your post.

John Titor

I have to agree. Who is benefiting from this war? Not me. Not this SEAL team member.

I agree. The SEAL team member was a true honorable warrior who died with supreme honor, but to accomplish what? This a screwed up bass ackwards country that has been chaotic for thousands of years and will continue to be chaotic. Politicans sacrifice nothing, their kids don't serve, so they look after their own interests.

Exactly right, Disgruntled and Liz. It's hard to argue against your point. Our fine men and women are being sacrificed---FOR WHAT????????

i agree with disgruntled...hotticket...and liz.

kinda makes john titor a moron now doesn't it?

it's only a shame if you don't own halliburton, defense and oil stocks like i do. don't cry if you can't profit off war because me and politicians certainly won't cry! we will drive our lambs ferraris and charter jets with hot young girls on board. join the club kid!

Servicemen don't risk their lives for politicians. They do it to protect your freedom and mine. They do it to protect us from enemies like those that attacked us on 9/11. What you fail to recognize comes directly from history as far back as man has fought man; and is stated clearly in the Art of War: "Take the fight to your enemy. Do not suffer them to live." It means if you give your enemy shelter and time to plan, they will eventually bring terror to your homes. This is well known in military circles, not so much in other places.

If you really don't understand the sacrifice, understand if they were not making this sacrifice overseas, we'd be watching our children getting blown up in schools here eventually. Thank them for their service, and while you may not understand why it is necessary, they know.

inconvenient truth: No disrespect intended, but what a bunch of propaganda b-llsh-t. I served in the military and I can tell you that plenty of service people know they are sacrificing for nothing, they take the position that this is not their decision and where the country calls, they go, whether justified or not. Plenty of wars have been started for business and political interests that had nothing to do with what you call freedom, it has always been so. It is not for service people to decide where their services are really warranted, so in their minds they are serving their country. Whether the "enemy" is actually going to bring the fight to us is highly speculative. Terrorist groups like this will continue to exist regardless of what you do in places like Afghanistan; either blow it off the map or get the hell out and worry about our borders. They live there and will be there when we leave. Service people have always had to finish wars that politicians start for their own purposes.

inconvenient truth,

Thank you. Well said.

Some of the posters here dishonor this SEAL's sacrifice and his family with their spiteful comments.

A lot of good men and women have given their lives through the years so these posters can have the freedoms they think come so cheaply. Arlington National Cemetery is full of them.

Terrorist groups like this will continue to exist regardless of what you do in places like Afghanistan; either blow it off the map or get the hell out and worry about our borders. They live there and will be there when we leave.

Yep. And the SECOND we leave, they will go back to fighting and killing each other.
Pat Buchanan- CORRECTLY I might add- predicted we'd be in this fiasco TEN YEARS AGO.
No one listened to him.

Liz, I don't take offense, and thank you for your service. You volunteered to serve. If you had issues with why troops are deployed, perhaps you should not have. While I am sure in your mind there are political reasons behind wars, name a war America has engaged in purely for political interests. I'm betting any war you name may seem political to you; like Vietnam, a popular choice of unnecessary wars. This war to many seemed political, but the fear of the spread of Communism, esp greater control in the hands of our old enemy the U.S.S.R. was a reality enough to send our troops. The same reason we went into Korea.

You have to understand your personal beliefs may not be shared with those in power. What they are told and what they see may not be what you are told and you see. It is the root behind the motto, "Ours is not to question why but to do or die".

To have served and not understand that while terrorist groups exist, to leave them unmolested when they have harming your civilians in mind results in them gaining the ability to in the future? Whether an enemy brings the fight to you is NOT speculative. They have already, and will do so every time you allow them. Why? They are your ENEMY. They want you dead. You think if you leave them be they will leave YOU be? Clinton and Bush both made that mistake in judgement. Sun Zu didn't. How many raids in Afghanistan did the US make pre-9/11? None. That didn't stop them from attacking us. Clinton and Bush forgot to let your enemy have shelter and time allows them to harm you.

The last "necessary" war was WWII, and arguably the first gulf war. Vietnam and Korea were for the rubber and other natural resources. If anything these wars merely galvanized the communist movement of the time. It was sheer stupidity and gained us nothing (unless you work for the military industrial complex).

Even Afghanistan was a bad idea. We could have dealt with the problems there using air power and sustained precision missile and drone strikes. There should never have been boots on the ground.

Iraq was the biggest mess ever. The country is less stable now than ever under Saddam. And while he was a bad guy, he was also very predictable. Further, we have killed more civilians in Iraq than Saddam did. Further, he did not have any WMD's (which most other agencies and governments doubted at the time, except for the Bush admin), and Saddam provided a wonderful buffer for Iran.

What an f'ing mess.

Servicemen don't risk their lives for politicians.

Pure effing B.S.
They they fight and die for a bunch of arrogant egotistical lardas.ses sitting in the White House because it's occupants think that throwing away money and lives in some pile of rocks seven thousand miles away, and then take over and "rebuild" their nations, makes them look good. Note that it's not THEIR kids being sent to the front lines.
They also die for the industrial complexes the politicans support. Why the hell else would BAE, Raytheon, and Lockheed Martin would be making money hand over fist, even in this ecomomy. It's over the bodies of dead soldiers.
Don't give me this bullsh1t of how we MUST fight these monkeys in sheets seven thousand miles away (in useless causes, at that) when we continue to IGNORE the BY FAR the BIGGEST threat to our safety and security:
THE BORDER NEXT DOOR.
Sorry, it doesn't wash.
Ever hear of the BORDER?????? You should go there one night. Then come back and give me a report on how much a bunch of sand monkeys fighting and killing each other are bigger threat than the narcoterrorists next door.

EngEsq,

I agree with everything you said except the Vietnam and Korean wars being over rubber and natural resources.

The fear of Communism was rampant during those years. Most Americans and our Government were hell-bent on preventing its spread throughout Asia. It seemed like a good idea to many people back then to try and halt its progress. In hindsight, of course, it was a waste of human lives.

Maybe silverton. I don't disagree that communism was a very large motivation, but fear is usually a tool used by a manipulator to motivate the populace to do something they would not normally support.

Call me cynical, but I see it as exactly the parallel of Iraq. We were not over there for WMD's. That was a scare tactic for motivating the populace, but I think the "real" reasons were for securing oil reserves and avenging "daddy".

I think communism was a vehicle to enable Vietnam and Korea to happen rather than a true motivator. If we were so concerned with communism you would think we would have taken a more aggressive stance with Cuba in '61.

Engesq, your assesment that most nations did not believe in WMD is inaccurate. Every nation in the free world is on video archives offering support based on the same inaccurate beliefs. Check your history vs. your personal beliefs. In fact, US Intelligence was undermanned due to cutbacks in our budget from Clinton. The majority of the info came from British and Israeli Intelligence, and was considered crebible by everyone. Not just Bush all alone. If no one else agreed, how do you explain the single largest coalition of nations the planet has seen in the history of mankind? Did everyone like Bush that much, or is it possible you are mistaken who believed what.

The entire war was to remove the threat of those weapons. That is not political. Again, not knowing your age, if you weren't alive under the fear of the Cold War post WWII, check historical footage of commercials, public information adds, political speeches, whatever. The fear of Communism was very real, and a motivation for our involvement in Asia.

And Hotticket, your vulgar means of communication being forgiven, the politicians decide to go to war on the advice of their military advisers and intelligence deptartments; not on a whim because their children aren't on the front line. What you are saying is pure liberal rhetoric. There's a reason Arlington National Cemetary is in full view from the Pentagon. It is so when these advisors suggest we send our troops somewhere, they do so with full knowledge of the possible concequences. They see it everyday. That was deliberate. Those are the men giving the advice, and a good many of their children also proudly serve. The liberal spin has an antidote. it's called reality.

your assesment that most nations did not believe in WMD is inaccurate. Every nation in the free world is on video archives offering support based on the same inaccurate beliefs. Check your history vs. your personal beliefs.

History is that the head of the UN monitoring, verification and inspection commission, Hans Blix, found no stockpiles of WMD's in Iraq in 2003 and stated that there was "proactive" steps by the Iraq government in complying with resolution 1441. The US pushed for a resolution to authorize force in Iraq based upon not full compliance of resolution 1441 but was denied (despite our huge clout in the UN). If there is any measure of international support and belief, I'd say the UN qualifies.

There was belief by the UN that resolving any questions regarding Iraq's capabilities could have been completed within "a few months." That wasn't sufficient and we attacked anyway.

Simply put, Saddam was very predictable. He was interested in retaining power at all cost, and after what happened in the past would not have provoked a US attack. He was never our friend, but he was an enemy who knew his place and acted rationally. I had this same damn argument back in 2003 with my father in law. I wish cooler heads had prevailed then.

check historical footage of commercials, public information adds, political speeches, whatever. The fear of Communism was very real, and a motivation for our involvement in Asia.

Fear is a wonderful tool. I have no doubt fear was used to justify the military actions to the public, but I highly doubt the actual decision makers were motivated by fear rather than political and financial advantage.

JohnTitor..You are partially correct ...We should never forget the ultimate sacrifice Aaron gave for his country..However our politicians are so far over their heads on this entire situation. These chicken Sh$t bastards that run our country are only concerned with their own glory...they are Phucking rock stars stealing as much as they can from the American people, including too many innocent lives on all sides ...

I D I O T!

francoisduvalle...........you are a hypocrite. first the politicians are.." chicken Sh$t bastards that run our country are only concerned with their own glory...they are Phucking rock stars stealing as much as they can from the American people, including too many innocent lives on all sides ..."
then you call a guy that agrees with ya an idiot.

HYPOCRITE

Bush, Tea Party, S&P.... you forgot to add Barak Obama, since he has been President for the last 3 years and has done nothing to fulfil his campaign promises to end the war.

Perfection; well said!

Couldn't have said it any better!

Well then, screw off, we don't need any negative people like you.

You are a horrid person and should be arrested.

They aren't talking about the loss of a family member being something to be blessed about, dummy. She was reffering to their marriage.

Why can't stupidty and intolerance be a federal crime?

stop using big words like God and Jesus to describe this war. keep your religion to yourself.

I never mentioned God or Jesus in this article, not even once. Please go away, we already have enough stupid people on the Vine, we don't need more.

good socialist

"Why can't stupidity and intolerance be a federal crime?"

Probably wouldn't get enforced.

"Why can't stupidity and intolerance be a federal crime?"

are you sure YOU want that?

"Why can't stupidty and intolerance be a federal crime?"

Because we don't have the resources to prosecute the number of people that would be violating the law.

so you're saying GROUND TROOPS should have gone in on apaches and supercobras? I've never flown in an apache, but if memory serves me correctly, there wasn't much room for additional people. The chinook is a strong military transport, honestly doesn't get much better then them. Or maybe you mean blackhawks with miniguns and machine guns mounted on them. Yeah ask Aidid's Somalian Militia how easy they were to take down. Chinook's have weapons and means to defend themselves. The point is it doesn't matter what helicopter it was, it was still a helicopter and they are relatively easy to shoot down. And believe it or not, there are some limits to resources, so multiple choppers may not have been available at such short notice. Plus there's not a lot you can do in mountainous Afghanistan, with limited landing space, maybe there was only room for one chopper to land where they were needed.

Yeah like what other heavily armed aircraft? An MH53 Pavlow? Doesn't carry enough guys... There aren't any others bud... And yeah... Spec Ops can repel or fastrope or even parachute from a helicopter... but you have no idea what the terrain was like at their insertion point. Pretty easy to criticize when you're not there...

Look Daniel... just google SOAR Nightstalker MH-47G... This is not a Vietnam era bird anymore... so you can stop with the Chinook bashing... Let it go man...

nightstalkers.americanspecialops.com/helicopters/mh-47.php

Arm chair commanders.

Thanks RangerRich, I guess you did the work, and i don't have to tell him. I think he's more meaning something like AH6 Little Birds, Black Hawk Down must have convinced him that you can transport people long distances riding on the skids.

No problem daMan. There's never a perfect solution to being inserted into a hot zone. Walk, drive, jump, fly... Bad guys are still trying to kill you and sometimes they will succeed. We've lost helicopters in several ops... Gothic Serpent (Black Hawk Down), Anaconda (One of the first missions into Afghanistan, The Bin-Laden raid, and now this... Helicopters aren't the perfect choice... but sometimes they are the only choice.

RLTW!

Obama has been President for the 3 yrs now. How many years is he going to get a free pass for his ownership of this war? You can only blame Bush for so long.

MichaelMoore.com: "In just 19 months, the Afghan war under Obama has claimed more U.S. lives than the previous administration's entire 88-month quagmire."

# of troops in Afghanistan at end of Bush admin: about 30K

# of troops in Afghanistan today under Obama: about 100K

And women too!

I agree with Broke, David, and Swell!

Good post Don-2405154,

You said a lot, with out saying too much. I agree.

The History Channel is showing an excellent documentary in two parts called "Third Reich - The Rise" and "Third Reich - The Fall." It is told from the German people's viewpoint during the war and is taken from their home film footage, their letters, their words. This set can be purchased at amazon.com and should be mandatory for every history student to watch. Its lessons on how easily a population can be manipulated by a power-obsessed dictator are unforgettable.

Good post. I was gonna write the same thing, but I would've added, the freedom to leave this country if you don't like it.

Uh...Thanks coach?

What a bunch of crap...Trust our leaders and you get what we got here...Which must be the way "God" wants it too?

These fake patriotic warm words do nothing to change the fact that these men died fighting a war that has no legitimate purpose other than enriching the few while the poor die fighting for some freedom they already possessed.

If I only had a brain.

stop using big words like God and Jesus to describe this war. keep your religion to yourself.

I am sick of you morons mixing your fantasy religion with every affair of this country. Did it ever occur to your ignorant mind that there are many people serving in the military that are not "Christian" Jesus-worshipers? There are Jews, atheists, Catholics, etc.

Thank you Biteme. I am so sick of it too. They are making it into a religious war...The Crusades all over again. I do not recall Jesus ever condoning joining the American military nor had he set foot on American soil. Leave god, jesus and Christianity out of it. enough already!

Biteme- it is called freedom of speech and freedom of religion. You have the right to your opinion... but don't forget that so does everyone else.

If you did your homework you would not be ignorent in the fact of knowing that the muslim extremists a.k.a Taliban proclaimed Gihad which is a Holy war and has been for centuries. And our country was founded by GOD loving people who fled from communism, and controlling dictators; to have their own true belief in GOD. They just like the recent NAVY SEALS believe IN GOD WE TRUST and thats the proclimation that made this country great. Thats the problem with America now people have forgotten our past, and we have radical extremists here that are some of the biggest terrorists on earth. It doesnt take a rocket scientist to see that when we were humble GOD loving and fearing people we were the strongest nation on earth, but we are letting ignorent religiously un-educated people push around their beliefs/guesstimations on the rest of society. Freedom of speech has gotten overused and abused; many of my friends and family have parished in war and they died for GOD, Country, Family and would be sickened if they knew they died for half of these idiots that dont deserve to be free...So to biteme and galgotha in the above statements keep your ignorent un-educated/ half-witted views to yourself these people are trying to express their love of GOD and Christ and their lost loved ones who died for something much bigger than your small mind can even fathom! And I pray for the families of the recently deceased, and hope they know there are still true Americans out there that deeply appreciate what your lost loved one has fought and died for. They are looking down upon us now from heaven with our true and only heavenly father GOD above...Amen

Joshua.....I think you should do your homework before you post your drivel....your statement about our founders feeing communism is the most ignorant thing i have read on the vine today......the idea of communism dates back to Plato, but Marx did not publish the Communist Manifesto until 1848......which in case your history is a little fuzzy is quite a while after our country was founded.......pull you head out of your bible and stick it in a history book before you claim others are ignorant.......you hypocrite

And perhaps i should re-read before i hit post.....i meant fleeing not feeing

Please remember Joshua... freedom of religion and freedom FROM religion. I believe that is also a founding principle no?

So according to you, service men and women are/were dying for God? I find that very hard to believe. I think that is what you CHOOSE to believe. I am neither uneducated nor ignorant. I find that concept sickening to say the least.

You mention declaring jihad. I agree they have. So according to you we are declaring a Christian response? If so all jewish, atheist, muslims etc should be pulled from service as this isnt their war right?

GalGotha - They are not Dying for God, they are dying for the right to believe, or in your case, the right to not believe. I would think you would have more respect for them. These brave men and women are fighting for our freedom, that is what they are there for. But FYI this particular soldier was a God fearing man, so why is it so offensive to you that people are praying for his family and asking God to comfort them. Why do you care? That is what he would want, are you so selfish that you would deny his family that comfort? Your hypocrisy is endless.

Nel,

I never once said I did not believe in god. Far from it. I am not disrespecting this soldier in any way for his beliefs. I have no problem with the people here sending their prayers etc.

I am only expressing my disdain to people commenting who are equating military service with Christianity. I take offence that it would considered serving God. I am considered an Atheist and unpatriotic if I take issue with that belief. That is a real shame.

I apologize if I jumped to a inaccurate conclusion about you GalGotha. However there are some here who are taking offense to those who are trying to sincerely send their condolences. That is the real shame.

I understand, thank you.

Biteme and support., are you guys terrorists, or Islamic extremists or something? Is there a problem asking God to bless our troops and bless our nation? Will that automatically turn us into a theocracy? Will it turn the wars into Crusades? Why do you guys get so mad over that, so offended and insecure. That is not healthy.

I fail to see how your bashing is anymore better than blessing this nation, in fact, I think blessing this nation is way more productive in some points.

Remember how many "jesus-loving stupid fairy tale lovers" are in Iraq and Afghanistan, making sure terrorists won't blow your big-ego a$$ into oblivion (although it would shut you and your bigotry up).

I have no consideration of you being emotionally human.

You guys could either be:

A) Complete morons.

B) Stephen King's editors

Personally, I go with option A